I run 93. That's the highest octane I can get here for pump gas.

-Mike

 

In Alabama we have access to 93. The recommended fuel is the minimum and what is used for the manufacturers power and TQ testing. My GT350R minimum is was also 93 but I only ran 93 on the street and 98 on the track.

 

In Alabama we have access to 93.

Access to 93 but not to abortions. Too soon?

 

You know what they say about "ASS"umptions?


Any who! The manual is clear that 91 is the minimum fuel requirement. There is a note specifically stating what will happen if you use less than 91 octane.

 

Sure do!!

 

Guys close thread, it is going nowhere now...

 

@natoe87 You settle down and lighten up, you're like a pistol half cocked ready to go off. Keep your personal politics to yourself. Volatile topics like this, don't belong here. What you stated, was just wrong and directed at a specific member because of his state location. It's disruptive and harassment of towards this member. Follow the rules of the forum, as everyone else does and stay on topic. Nuff said! Keep it up, I'll report it or someone else will.

Guys close thread, it is going nowhere now.

It will, if certain members, stay on topic and refrain from interjecting their personal liberal politics into the discussion.

92 is the top tier here in OR. I like that newer cars are smart enough to adjust quickly for knock but still run premium whenever possible as you should.

It's old technology for over several decades. Knock sensors detect an issue send signals and the ECU simply retards the timing. ECU aren't smart and can't think. They are programmed to specific parameters for operation. They only operate with in them and won't adapt beyond.

 

Ok, back on topic. I just got rid of a 2014 Ford Fusion with the 2.0L turbo motor. In it's manual it stated you could use 87 or higher but if you used 87 it gave you 231hp and if you used 93 it gave you 240hp. Be what it may but I'm always going to use 93. I get great gas mileage too. This morning on the way to work in eco mode on back roads I got 33.6 mgp. And yes there were stop signs and lights to stop at. Ya can't beat it. This car is great on gas and is pretty quick too. It's nice to finally have your cake and eat it too.

-Mike

 

91 or 93.

 

If you are asking what I used it is always 93. Since day of buying it. Love the sig, btw...

-Mike

 

I'M USING 382 OCTANE GAHHHHHH

And they said this thread was going nowhere...

 

382 octane is a waste of money. There's no way this engine can take advantage of it, in fact you are probably even hurting performance with such a slow burning fuel.

How are the "pops & bangs" on 382?

 

Hook, Line and Sinker!!!

LMAO!! There is no 382 octane. 🎣

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I wouldn't go over 100 octane in this car. 93 is just fine.

-Mike

 

The only way you can go over 115 C-14+ octane, is to utilize aviation fuels. Not wise considering TEL (Tetra-ethyl-lead) is used to increase octane rating. Automotive engines are no longer engineered to utilize lead content in fuel.

 

utilize aviation fuels

Most of those fuels are more like diesel engine fuel, and you wouldn't want to put that in your gasoline engine.

Max

 

No, it's Aviation Gasoline.

I believe you're thinking of JP4-JP8, which used in jet engines and is closer to Kerosene.

Avgas is specifically designed to be used piston driven, prop aircraft. Av gas is simply; a high octane internal combustion fuel with higher lead contents (TEL).

This link ought to help;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas
https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/avgas/

 

Where I'm at (Delaware) you can get 94 at some of the Sunoco pumps, and 100 around the Dover track (and yes, aviation fuel (c16?) if you know where to find it). For one, its not good for the catalytic converter. When untuned for, high octane fuel will eat up the materials and eventually lead to blockages because it will basically disintegrate into fine dust. Its not going to make a power difference in a car thats electronically adjusting timing, which is why you can get away with 87 sometimes and if you're not beating on it. I'd never run below 91 in a turbo car. Ford using regular fuel is a hack because they know their customers are going to be cheap and ignore any advice to run premium in a pickup truck. I'm sure it runs pig rich. Some of that Wawa gas here is low quality. Forget the HP differences because the economy and longevity will make up for the difference. I'm sure its using some kind of wide band detection system to adjust for mistakes. You have to consider that they tune and design a fuel system with a certain level of error and to prevent it from being "region" specific as gas is differently formulated by elevation and supply geography. IIRC, you might only see 85 in high elevations, but since there is less O2 density in the air, you dont need the anti-knock additives to prevent detonation. FWIW, turbos do very well with mitigating power loss since they build air density.

Lower RON/octane fuel burns hotter (and unburnt fuel has a cooling effect to a point) because you're reducing octane so you can increase potential for knock and heat related wear by trying to save money. I also think GDI motors allow them to handle lower octane gas better to a point. This is also related to why a tune to lean out the cylinders on premium gas can yield a bit more power and economy as you also increase boost and optimize fuel ratio - especially if the ECU can handle the range and you're sticking to known good fuel and buying that fuel from one specific geographic location. If say, you had a protuned car in California, you might want to retune that car for safety in Maryland or it might run like crap.


Does anyone know what the cylinder compression (not the ratio) is out of curiosity?

I wonder if Hyundai will come out with factory approved tunes since they're being restrictive about the ECU changes, but their warranty is a big selling point. I would say that reilable 300whp is not out of question for this motor although being FWD and other parts might make that just a numbers game.

 

Compression ratio is 9.5 to 1

 

I guess my question about that is somewhat dumb since the compression is going to be variable and based on a lot of things like fuel in the cylinder and boost pressure at the moment of measurement. I guess this is why they lower the compression to run more boost since that is what creates density. CR X Pressure = cylinder PSI? Shame its not at least a semi-closed deck.

Is there any data on what size the injectors are?

Anyone planning on using the Race Chip piggyback? There isnt a whole lot of data on their site, but it looks like the only thing it can do is increase boost pressure, which is the original turbo car trick. Is the ECU smart enough to compensate for that properly? How much does it even add? I dont see how that device would affect/adjust fuel needed, which would be dangerous since you wont know (or will you) what your injectors are even doing without a different monitoring device. FWIW, they're claiming to get a tick above 300whp on the i30n with other supporting mods. I've never known it to be just that easy without putting something else in danger. Seems like they're leaving it up to the ECU to fix any potential problems.

 

I agree and why I cancelled my order for the Race-chip and will buy a lighter set of wheels and tires. I'd bet you feel more of a difference in reduction in un-sprung mass vs the chip.

 

With a piggyback tuner the whp it makes, is dependent upon what map setting is utilized and the octane fuel. Up to 35 whp and 44 ft lbs of torque. A piggy back ECU does more than raise boost pressure.

It's Plug and play, retains all the ECU safety parameters, unlike with a remap or re-flash. They are tunable for bolt on modifications and fuel octane utilized as well. RaceChips runs 7 different maps based primarily on the particular octane fuel utilized.

The ECU doesn't fix problems. The ECU adapts, with in the parameters it was programmed with. Piggy back tuners don't attempt to go beyond those parameter. Static remapping and re-flashing does.

Boost on the Veloster is capped @ 21 psi by the OEM ECU. Any given piggyback (JB4, DTUK, RaceChips, Lap3) will allow an increase to 25-26 psi in boost in the lower rpm ranges from 1800 to 3750 rpm. It doesn't hold static boost across the rpm range, neither does the OEM ECU. Some remove the top end limiter and adjust AF ratios.

At higher rpms 4750 to redline, boost drops off dramatically and is somewhere in the 7-9 psi range. The Veloster N's is not designed to make higher horsepower, as the turbo is a smaller unit and produces max hp and torque at lower rpms. So it's limited in the higher rpm ranges. Designed to reduce turbo lag, when you need it most in daily driving. It will efficiently make max horsepower in the 300-315 whp range. Not much more, no matter what you do with modifications. Even with a custom remap or re-flash, it's still limited to around 315 whp & 300-320 ft lbs torque.

It will take a much larger turbo, manifold, CAI intake, pistons, connecting rods and custom tune to make over this safely. It will also nix the warranty quite quickly in the process.:wink:

 

Running 93 non ethanol in my car. May just be me but it does seem to run a little better on non ethanol 93 vs ethanol 93. Dealer said I could run 87, which I thought was strange, owned turbo cars before and always ran the highest available at the pump. so I referred to the tried and true owners manual and it said 91.it seems like dealers for this car don’t have much knowledge on this specific model lol. At least from my experience, I knew more about the car than they did haha or so it seemed.

 

They don't!! I talked to our service reps, nice enough individuals and they knew very little about the background of the car, let alone particulars.

 

Yes everyone I dealt with was very nice to deal with. But I was astonished at how little anyone knew about the car, not knocking them just was surprised that they weren’t given much info on the N but when the salesman said “that’s what’s nice with these cars there is no gain to running higher octane and it does not hinder performance ” haha. I then went to the car got the manual and showed him what I was sure to be an incorrect statement. I showed him the 91 in the book and he kept saying about the 87 above it.long story short I went to the filling station with him to fill the first tank to ensure that premium was in from the word go. I did not buy the car entirely for fuel mileage anyway and that extra 10 bucks to fill it is not going to put me in the poor house lol

 

VN62,

I'll be honest. I was an N/A guy till I bought this car. So tuning FI engine is new to me. I understand the concept of more boost more power. Can you clarify this statement, "Boost on the Veloster is capped @ 21 psi by the OEM ECU. Any given piggyback (JB4, DTUK, RaceChips, Lap3) will allow an increase to 25-26 psi in boost in the lower rpm ranges from 1800 to 3750 rpm." If the OEM ECU is capped at 21psi, how does the piggy back exceed that parameter?
Also, are you suggesting that a piggy back will not void the warranty?

Thanks,

 

Yes, the use of a piggyback ECU will will void the warranty. However, there is no way to detect its use by anyone including Hyundai. Once it's removed, the ECU simply runs off the OEM tune parameters.

There is an over boost feature as part of the OEM programming. A piggy back will send signals to the OEM ECU fooling, into believing it's running much cooler. The ECU will allow more boost and appropriate amounts of fuel. The A/F rations in the 2.0T Theta II engines, are way too fat to begin with. So there's plenty of room to make adjustments. The fatter the A/F Ratio, the less hp made. It's simply running too rich from the factory. Timing is controlled by the ECU but the signals altered from the piggyback, will allow an advancement in timing instead of retarding.

Now, until there is a K-TAG tool or KessV2 for this type of ECU, there will be no bench, ODB II diagnostic port tunes or flash tuners available. The tool is not available at this time for the N's OEM ECU application. However, static tuning can be detected by the flash counter in the OEM ECU. If there are more flashes than the Hyundai has installed or permitted, they'll then look deeper into the programming with the Hyundai SAE diagnostic unit. The rest is just formality and your goose is cooked.

Best thing to do is; use a piggyback ECU or leave it alone. Most piggy back modules have at least 5-7 different tunes and are reprogrammable. A piggyback ECU can be quickly removed for servicing and it will revert back to the OEM tune. You can't do this with a, ECU bench tune or remap. Plus remaps and re-flashes remove safety parameters beyond what the ECU parameters permit.

You can with a hand held re-flash module but it will still show additional tunes loaded to the ECU, via the flash counter.

 

This thing is a basic hack that intercepts boost and fuel sensors and makes adjustments according to their "map" in the device. Its a basic principle type of tuning common on vehicles you cant do ECU PROM rewrites with. More boost, more gas, more power but I dont think this has the capability of controlling timing or the other fine elements that an ECU rewrite will do. I'd be cautious on whether turning up the boost and fuel pressure is the kind of thing that the engine can handle these changes in all conditions including weather temperature extremes. YMMV. If you look at the i30n videos on who's installed this, they've also installed a new i/c, intake, and I think exhaust because you're going to produce more heat trapped by back pressure. I'm not sure, but they may have replaced the turbo which is integrated into the manifold.

The JB4 tuner is a little better in presentation but does the same thing- Intercepting two of the control mechanisms, but you're still just using an OBD/CAN interface to log but you must consider this is what the ECU interprets the sensors to read. Putting down 300whp in the 2.0T should be easy and safe-ish for this motor if the tune is conservative from the factory. The biggest limit is probably the open deck design which can cause head gasket scrub which leads to wear then leaks. Its as important to know where the power is applied in the stroke along with EGTs when tuning. I wouldn't necessarily rely on the ECU's interpretation of what happens in the motor for the best picture. An example of scrub is whats happening to the 350bhp motors in the FocusRS. Then again, we haven't seen anyone disassemble a block for analysis. The EJ257 (Subaru) uses a semi-close deck, but their hypereutectic pistons made for low thermal expansion are brittle and ringlands fracture under detonation. We dont know much about the pistons are in this motor and how resilient it will be to mistakes in the fuel management, bad gas, heat and detonation. We dont know what protective measures like the knock sensor will use and retarding engine timing to save it from itself. I'm sure Hyundai has considered a bit of this and being its capable of not grenading on regular pump gas with such a long warranty means there is a lot of play in the maps. There have been some claims that motors also vary in power output by as much as 20whp, which I think is a lot.