[Matt]

I’m thinking of getting the forge intake or this sxth element intake for my N. Can anyone tell me the differences between these two?

 

[N_Dorphins]

The Forge intake is prone to heat soak since its filter is not enclosed. I'd say take a look at the AFE / Takeda Momentum intake but its on back order til the end of next month.

 

[ultraviolet]

N Performance

 

[Ghost]

I have the AFe/Tekada Momentum intake and couldn't be happier. I have it attached to a Forge turbo inlet and a Velossa Tech intake snorkel.

Best regards,

-Mike

 

[EvaUnit Type-N]

I ordered that sxth intake and it should be coming in soon. I will post install and review soon if you have the patience to wait for it lol. I mainly ordered for aesthetics, but according to their website and dyno graph there is an 8-11 HP and torque increase across the graph which sounds like fun to me!

 

[utspoolup]

Im not digging the Sxth intake. While I don't mind the pipe, the rest looks half done and over complicated with more downsides than the visually appealing carbon pipe. The airbox is for instance has a plexi top plate secured with 4 fasteners, is metal, but no flange integrated for the pipe/ filter. Hence you have this hodgepodge interface to screw with all the time. I also do not like how the inlet is positioned to not allow usage for the wide mouth inlet. it looks like a cut hole with a slit tube protection for some sort of adapter to be added later on? Then looking at the hardware in the photo, how does this secure? I can see 1 maybe 2 of the factory mounts holding this box on? The fact that they do not even show this installed sort of agrees with this assessment. But the carbon pipe does look nice.

I have the AFE and its great. Plastic prevents heat soak, secures to the factory mounts. The filter slips into the air box then the air tube clamps onto this. Less hardware to screw with, plus it seals up in a less obstructive way to the factory air channel that the big mouth inlet can attach to.

My $0.02, get the AFE takeda momentum intake, the wide mouth inlet, and a Yames or AFE turbo inlet adapter. But Yames it the original build forum member piece. AFE pretty much cloned it, but they added the mount for the harness which Yames and Sxth needs to secure with zip ties. But its easily done and you will have plenty of harnesses/ hoses secured with zip ties in no time on the car, with piggy backs, gauges, cameras, catch cans, MAC valve, etc.

 

[BaseMentality]

The N is my weekend car/ tool around town with car. I have a work truck I drive during the week. I chose the AEM to get the best sound out of the intake. Not great for heat soak but I really don’t drive it enough to get heat soaked. SXTH products are kinda over priced.

 

[MikeMr305]

Quick first hand experience,
I live in florida so its full of humidity and constant 90°+ weather and originally owned the forge, but now own the afe momentum. There is no significant difference in performance, no noticeable difference in heat soak and IATs (measured with JB4). I miss the Forge because it was a hair faster, smoother, and much sexier noises than the AFE, but i prefer box intakes for the piece of mind because theres alot of flooded roads around here and its been pouring like crazy for the last couple months. At the end of the day i say just get whatever you like, because there is no significant difference in anything except sound.

 

[BaseMentality]

A thread on here a guy said he had 20 degree cooler difference after he switched to the AFE from the AEM. I would love to have an in depth testing done to really nail down what is what.

 

[burberryjeff]

I’m thinking of getting the forge intake or this sxth element intake for my N. Can anyone tell me the differences between these two? View attachment 3324 View attachment 3325

I know this is a little late but man I’ve heard almost all these different intakes on the N, I’m sure they all perform well but the K&N is by far the best sounding one and the flutter is immaculate.

 

[RedVN]

I ordered that sxth intake and it should be coming in soon. I will post install and review soon if you have the patience to wait for it lol. I mainly ordered for aesthetics, but according to their website and dyno graph there is an 8-11 HP and torque increase across the graph which sounds like fun to me!

This varies drastically depending upon where you are climate wise and altitude. Look for around 6 whp constantly, unless you are at or near sea level.

 

[ProjectVeloN]

I have the forge intake and forge inlet pipe. I've driven the car hard for 45 minutes and never noticed a decrease in performance. If there was a decrease, my guess would be due to factory intercooler and not the intake. I can tell you that from the factory that the 2 forge pieces in combination produced a noticeable difference in performance, torque, throttle response, and sound.

Once you see the size of the forge unit in person and put it in you will know you made the right choice.

I disagree w redvn that you will only get 6hp out of it constantly. However - I do agree w/ him that there are many factors. Tork did an aem install and it netted 18whp on the dyno and he was shocked. Open up the space and get better flow.

-JE

 

[RedVN]

I have the forge intake and forge inlet pipe. I've driven the car hard for 45 minutes and never noticed a decrease in performance. If there was a decrease, my guess would be due to factory intercooler and not the intake. I can tell you that from the factory that the 2 forge pieces in combination produced a noticeable difference in performance, torque, throttle response, and sound.

Once you see the size of the forge unit in person and put it in you will know you made the right choice.

I disagree w redvn that you will only get 6hp out of it constantly. However - I do agree w/ him that there are many factors. Tork did an aem install and it netted 18 whp on the dyno and he was shocked. Open up the space and get better flow.

-JE

Happy you don't in actuality. This gives me an opportunity to expound why. For reference sake; have you made any dynoed comparisons since purchasing the VN with and without an enclosed or open intake? Do you utilize a good quality data logger? I think as you learn more about this particular car and do some actual dyno testing and data logging, you'll begin to understand.

There's no seat of the pants dynos and without dynamometer testing there is no sure way to know. Neither does anticipation and wishful thinking. Particular emotional states, can have a great deal to do with personal reactions, senses and feelings. This is why a seat of the pants impressions, can't rely upon it as a true methodology of determining performance.

The longer the car is run the more heat soak develops. Heat soak has a drastic effect on power output and performance. The more heat the engine develops and is ingested back into the the engine, the less overall whp is available. at any given rpm. This is well known by performance enthusiast the world round backed by dyno support, datalogging, actual quartermile and track performance. There are others factors as well.

Size or diameter of an intake, is not a primary determining factor for performance/whp and torque. Most aftermarket Intakes use the same basic principles. Additionally, dynos don't tell complete tail. Such dynos from aftermarket manufacturers are developed in ideal conditions. Most manufacturers rate their whp gains, with best of three (average,) dyno runs which are made back to back under ideal conditions. We don't utilize the VN in ideal conditions.

I have a Forge Motorsport Intake and aFe Takeda for different times of year and running conditions. I have dynoed both under normal use cand ideal conditions specifically and either will produce 6-10 whp depending upon heat soak and engine running time, under normal load conditions. A bit more, if done in ideal conditions. This is with the addition of a Forge Motorsport Intercooler, Velossa Tech Ram Air Intake, a multitude of thermo heat shielding, Maintec Downpipe, Maxbore TB, Boomba Intake Manifold and TB spacers, and various other performance adders.

Again, everything is dependant upon your location, altitude, ambient conditions and air density. Additionally, the condition of the engine as well. Longevity causes wear, wear creates an overall loss of power. Nothing more or less.

 

[ProjectVeloN]

Happy you don't in actuality. This gives me an opportunity to expound why. For reference sake; have you made any dynoed comparisons since purchasing the VN with and without an enclosed or open intake? Do you utilize a good quality data logger? I think as you learn more about this particular car and do some actual dyno testing and data logging, you'll begin to understand.

There's no seat of the pants dynos and without dynamometer testing there is no sure way to know. Neither does anticipation and wishful thinking. Particular emotional states, can have a great deal to do with personal reactions, senses and feelings. This is why a seat of the pants impressions, can't rely upon it as a true methodology of determining performance.

The longer the car is run the more heat soak develops. Heat soak has a drastic effect on power output and performance. The more heat the engine develops and is ingested back into the the engine, the less overall whp is available. at any given rpm. This is well known by performance enthusiast the world round backed by dyno support, datalogging, actual quartermile and track performance. There are others factors as well.

Size or diameter of an intake, is not a primary determining factor for performance/whp and torque. Most aftermarket Intakes use the same basic principles. Additionally, dynos don't tell complete tail. Such dynos from aftermarket manufacturers are developed in ideal conditions. Most manufacturers rate their whp gains, with best of three (average,) dyno runs which are made back to back under ideal conditions. We don't utilize the VN in ideal conditions.

I have a Forge Motorsport Intake and aFe Takeda for different times of year and running conditions. I have dynoed both under normal use cand ideal conditions specifically and either will produce 6-10 whp depending upon heat soak and engine running time, under normal load conditions. A bit more, if done in ideal conditions. This is with the addition of a Forge Motorsport Intercooler, Velossa Tech Ram Air Intake, a multitude of thermo heat shielding, Maintec Downpipe, Maxbore TB, Boomba Intake Manifold and TB spacers, and various other performance adders.

Again, everything is dependant upon your location, altitude, ambient conditions and air density. Additionally, the condition of the engine as well. Longevity causes wear, wear creates an overall loss of power. Nothing more or less.

I appreciate you taking the time to expand but it isn't necessary. Heat soak has been covered many times other places. I understand how the get the dyno numbers and I understand we dont do a pull on the car 3x and call it a day.

I have not dyno'd the car since putting new parts on and I would be lying if I said I did. At the same time, 6hp gain on a car that produces 235hp at the wheels is not discernable by the butt dyno! The % increase is too small.

Just to clarify - you are sayin you have all those parts bolted onto your car - and then done 3 back to back dynos.

Bolt on parts + stock intake
Bolt on parts + forge
Bolt on parts + AFE

And you are saying that the forge and AFE only produce 6-10 w all those bolt on parts? That doesnt add up.

Again, Tork did a dyno on a stock VN w/ just intake and got 18whp.

Because a turbo is driven and maximized by by air flow in and air flow out it doesnt make sense what you are saying. If you got 6-10 I would assume that would be on a stock car and after maximal pulls and w/ OEM equipment.

The torque curve and hp numbers above 4k should of been way more with DP and exhaust.

The intercooler just allows you to do it longer.

-JE

 

[RedVN]

I appreciate you taking the time to expand but it isn't necessary. Heat soak has been covered many times other places. I understand how the get the dyno numbers and I understand we don't do a pull on the car 3x and call it a day.

I appreciate you saying so and giving me the opportunity to recap on heat soak but I don't believe you understand and read what I commented to incorrectly, no offense.

I have not dyno'd the car since putting new parts on and I would be lying if I said I did. At the same time, 6hp gain on a car that produces 235hp at the wheels is not discernible by the butt dyno! The % increase is too small.

When have you dynoed it in OEM trim? I hope that you not lying but for the sake of discussion, I didn't think you were. Some VN 's produce more or less power. SXTH Element produced 234 whp/247 ft lbs of tq. aFe was 224whp/244 ft lbs tq and so on with a OEM trim VN. Again, it depends upon the location and testing parameters utilized dyno utilized. I don't utilize a "butt dyno," for testing purposes or to determine if a particular modification produces effective power (whp/tq). So, it's irrelevant to me.

Just to clarify - you are saying you have all those parts bolted onto your car - and then done 3 back to back dynos.

No.

And you are saying that the forge and AFE only produce 6-10 with all those bolt on parts? That doesn't add up.

Based on what factual comparable information?

Again, Tork did a dyno on a stock VN w/ just intake and got 18whp.

Again, results vary with testing location, parameters, dyno utilized, correction factors etc. Tork is just one manufacturer. and they claim a greater whp/tq gain than anyone else. I suggest this is a bit of tradecraft at work knowing DDamnFast/Tork.

Because a turbo is driven and maximized by by air flow in and air flow out it doesn't make sense what you are saying. If you got 6-10 I would assume that would be on a stock car and after maximal pulls and w/ OEM equipment.

This is correct, regarding the basic operation of a turbocharger. However, there are other factors that come into play. Your assumption is incorrect.

The torque curve and hp numbers above 4k should of been way more with DP and exhaust.

"Should be," that's a premature assumption. I don't utilize premature assumptions to determine effectual power increases from performance modifications. My VN makes 305whp + or - @ 3673 323 ft lbs torque at 6500 rpm @20.2 psi boost, with a properly tuned ECU. I don't dyno test with crank hp. A properly tuned intake, is only one small part of the equation. There's nothing significant about 4K rpm, except where the OEM engine makes maximum torque. The torque curve and actual torque output can be adjusted with tuning.

The intercooler just allows you to do it longer.

Not totally correct. When the air is compressed by a turbo it gets very hot, very quickly. Therefore, its temperature climbs and its oxygen content (density) drops. When the air is cool, an intercooler provides a denser, more oxygen-rich air to the engine. Thus improving the combustion, by allowing more fuel to be burned. Otherwise, It produces added hp/tq by keeping temps air temps down, higher air flow and a cooler air charge to the turbocharger, improving combustion. I also utilize a Forge Motorsport cold side boost pipe, aFe and Forge Turbo Intake and several others performance adders.

 

[ProjectVeloN]

I appreciate you saying so and giving me the opportunity to recap on heat soak but I don't believe you understand and read what I commented to incorrectly, no offense.
When have you dynoed it in OEM trim? I hope that you not lying but for the sake of discussion, I didn't think you were. Some VN 's produce more or less power. SXTH Element produced 234 whp/247 ft lbs of tq. aFe was 224whp/244 ft lbs tq and so on with a OEM trim VN. Again, it depends upon the location and testing parameters utilized dyno utilized. I don't utilize a "butt dyno," for testing purposes or to determine if a particular modification produces effective power (whp/tq). So, it's irrelevant to me.
No.
Based on what factual comparable information?
Again, results vary with testing location, parameters, dyno utilized, correction factors etc. Tork is just one manufacturer. and they claim a greater whp/tq gain than anyone else. I suggest this is a bit of tradecraft at work knowing DDamnFast/Tork.
This is correct, regarding the basic operation of a turbocharger. However, there are other factors that come into play. Your assumption is incorrect.
"Should be," that's a premature assumption. I don't utilize premature assumptions to determine effectual power increases from performance modifications. My VN makes 305whp + or - @ 3673 364 ft lbs torque at 6500 rpm with a properly tuned ECU. I don't dyno test with crank hp. A properly tuned intake, is only one small part of the equation. There's nothing significant about 4K rpm, except where the OEM engine makes maximum torque. The torque curve and actual torque output can be adjusted with tuning.
Not totally correct. When the air is compressed by a turbo it gets very hot, very quickly. Therefore, its temperature climbs and its oxygen content (density) drops. When the air is cool, an intercooler provides a denser, more oxygen-rich air to the engine. Thus improving the combustion, by allowing more fuel to be burned. Otherwise, It produces added hp/tq by keeping temps air temps down, higher air flow and a cooler air charge to the turbocharger, improving combustion. I also utilize a Forge Motorsport cold side boost pipe, aFe and Forge Turbo Intake and several others performance adders.

I wish I knew how you quote and highlight cause that is so much better!

1. I have not dyno'd in OEM trim that is from all the youtube videos I have watched and other tuning shops I follow and their averages compiled on OEM VN.

2. I am not in disagreement that it is an integrated system. Because it is an integrated system if you had all Bolt On's in place and tested OEM intake and stock air box; and then re-tested all Bolt on's and Forge intake w/ same wind speeds and in same environment, I am saying you should get more w/ the Forge than the OEM box and filter and I would guess way more than 6-10hp. I would even be willing to pay you for this. I am not sayin I am right but I think I am. If it doesnt produce more than what you sayin then I am wrong and lesson learned and I wasted 400 bucks on an intake!

3. I simplified my turbocharger analysis for simplicity. I understand how it works and all tuning shops say the best thing you can do for real world driving on the VN is upgraded intercooler before a DP, even though DP produces more HP on the dyno. Im not trying to explain how a turbo works on here - that can be understood w a google search or a youtube video.

4. Lastly, this isnt an assumption or a should be. My good friend worked with Corky Bell and has vast amounts of knowledge on turbocharging. Bigger piping and a better filter always produced better results if the turbo was appropriate size and in combo w correct size DP and exhaust. So I believe on the VN a 2in intake piping vs 4in piping would produce a big diffeence especially considering you have all the other systems in place.

Therefore, will you allow me to pay you and run those test?

Hell - lets do ten pulls and start w/ the IAT already up!

1. All Bolt ons + Oem Intake and Box
2. All Bolt ons + Forge

That would proof it. Then you can drive around for 30 minutes and show us your datalogger w Ten WOT puls w/ Stock Box and then w Forge.

You in?

-JE

 

[Ghost]

Another thing to look at is not just how large the piping or filter is but what the piping is made from is also a factor. AEM, Forge, and couple others have metal piping. If I purchased an intake with metal piping, I am certainly sending it off to Jet Hot for a coating to keep the air cooler inside that metal piping. With that being said, I opted for a Afe Tekada Momentum (thermo plastic piping) attached to a Forge turbo inlet. I have a Velossa Tech snout feeding it the coolest air I can get into the engine that is right behind the grill. I wasn't going to try 20 different things so this was the best I could rationalize for coolest air and best performance. Plus, it is as close as you can get to a sort of ram air system.

Br,

-Mike

 

[Crispy]

These hp gains..., they're consistent throughout the entire RPM band right?

What? No? Exactly. Even the dyno results provided with the AFE Takeda CAI show 14hp only in one small range. The rest of the time it is considerably less.

 

[ProjectVeloN]

Another thing to look at is not just how large the piping or filter is but what the piping is made from is also a factor. AEM, Forge, and couple others have metal piping. If I purchased an intake with metal piping, I am certainly sending it off to Jet Hot for a coating to keep the air cooler inside that metal piping. With that being said, I opted for a Afe Tekada Momentum (thermo plastic piping) attached to a Forge turbo inlet. I have a Velossa Tech snout feeding it the coolest air I can get into the engine that is right behind the grill. I wasn't going to try 20 different things so this was the best I could rationalize for coolest air and best performance. Plus, it is as close as you can get to a sort of ram air system.

Br,

-Mike

I understand Mike I dont have a disagreement w the logic behind. The debate seems to be between how much can one get in terms of air flow increase w/ a bigger filter and larger diameter piping verse IAT increase and the point at which one supersedes the others. I hear a lot of people on here saying AFE is better cause it is made of differing materials and keeps IAT lowers but I have yet to see someone show me a dyno of ten pulls made in succession w OEM filter vs forge or forge vs AFE proofing that.

I genuinely am interested in knowing not based off theory. I have a problem when individuals question my theory and say " where is the proof"and yet have failed to show me any proof of their own. They are saying no butt dyno and then say IAT are lower but havent provided any proof.

I am not saying Forge is better than AFE I think they do diff things. I am saying my forge intake and forge inlet pipe produced considerably better results (butt dyno). Yet we questions that. I think the forge will produce more HP and i think AFE will produce more consistent power longer based off logic and reason.

However - lets test it. Logic an reason arent always cut and dry. Lets call spades spades and hearts hearts. Dont tell me IAT are lower - show me. Same environment - same test.

Lets get some real numbers.

-JE

 

[ProjectVeloN]

These hp gains..., they're consistent throughout the entire RPM band right?

What? No? Exactly. Even the dyno results provided with the AFE Takeda CAI show 14hp only in one small range. The rest of the time it is considerably less.

Agree a peak is a peak and not always throughout. AEM shows from 4k-6k biggest increase. Anything else?

-JE