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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Obviously this is coming from someone with the base car but in another discussion, the base car is as loud as the PP car which indicates to me that the exhaust is no more restrictive, my question is, and sorry if it's been covered, but where does the extra ponies come from in the PP cars?
 

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also 13 in brakes up front , a electronically controlled lsd diff , a few less controllable things in the N grin engine management sys , 25 less hp same torque , and pp has 19 in tires -rims . and unless i foregot something (which at my advanced ags #!?) to pawn a phraze unless i foregot something i remembered ?? ya"all have a good one
 

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Discussion Starter #5
also 13 in brakes up front , a electronically controlled lsd diff , a few less controllable things in the N grin engine management sys , 25 less hp same torque , and pp has 19 in tires -rims . and unless i foregot something (which at my advanced ags #!?) to pawn a phraze unless i foregot something i remembered ?? ya"all have a good one

Ahh, so it's the 13" brakes that makes the PP cars more powerful, what was I thinking???:wink:
 

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The ECU programming between the PP and base VN are minimal, there's no hardware differences between the 2 engines either. They put down the same power.

SXTH Element put them both on a dyno to test.
 

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I'm going to have to politely disagree with you here. Frankly put, 25 horsepower difference, is not minimal by tuning.

SXTH Element has said a lot of things to date, with several being far from correct. They have also contradicted themselves on several occasions, past and present. They're not the experts regarding modifications on this powertrain, by a long shot. Their offerings are hit or miss. Their testing consists of donor cars, when available. They don't have the financial resources to purchase either and fully develop range of parts.

Dyno testing, relies more on testing environment and conditions. SXTH Element aren't data logging on the street for one, so they have no idea what or how the VN is actually performing on a daily basis. The donor VN's they are utilizing are owners who are not fully responsive or knowledgable. Their results come strictly from dyno testing, when the donor cars are available and nothing else. To the point; they have a long way to go, before I'll even remotely rely on their, so called VN expertise.

The VN PP puts down 275 hp and the VN Base/250 hp respectively from the factory, with the same torque output. Multiple dynos from other sources have quoted, everything from 235-250whp plus or minus for the PP and 200-219 whp plus or minus for the base. So there are drastic difference, in horsepower output and power delivery. Yes, they utilize the same powertrain but tuning is much different.

Of course there are the obvious differences, e-diff, active exhaust, wheel size, tuning and some not so obvious as well.
 

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SXTH did the dyno tests on stock cars, same dyno. If two identical cars are stock, the output difference between them will be minimal. I haven't seen a PP vs NPP on the same dyno anywhere else. Do you have a link? I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see the difference.

Different dynoes will have completely different readings even on the same car. Even different days on the same dyno can be different. I take no stock in forum threads where people post random dyno numbers. The best you can do is same dyno same day, otherwise comparison is useless. SXTH claims to have done this. As for the tuning file- They actually looked at the raw data from the tuning files to analyze the tune files.
 

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They didn't do it on stock cars. Like is said before, they utilize donor cars and their access to them is very inconsistent.

Exactly, different days, different ambient conditions, will change readings.

They've written two remaps for the VN, Stage I is a cleanup of the ECU, Stage II is, actually what most tuners consider a stage one map. They have no downpipe, intercooler or other modifications to tune and adjust for, except an intake. Every tuner has to look at and re-wright the raw date and all tunes are not equal. You have to tune for modifications and you darn sure have to have the parts available and on the car, while dyno testing. If you don't you're simply guessing, when writing fueling tables. Like I stated, they don't have a cars to daily datalog either.
 

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100% agree. The information in general on tunning is vague at best. No consistency as there are not enough of these cars on the road.
Hence why I have not tunned. I want to see a tunned car tested in july on a race track with all else being stock and see how it performs. Frankly, most modded and tuned cars dont do well in that regard and to me thats where the rubber meets the road.

SXTH did the dyno tests on stock cars, same dyno. If two identical cars are stock, the output difference between them will be minimal. I haven't seen a PP vs NPP on the same dyno anywhere else. Do you have a link? I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see the difference.

Different dynoes will have completely different readings even on the same car. Even different days on the same dyno can be different. I take no stock in forum threads where people post random dyno numbers. The best you can do is same dyno same day, otherwise comparison is useless. SXTH claims to have done this. As for the tuning file- They actually looked at the raw data from the tuning files to analyze the tune files.
 

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This is a good perspective of the horsepower the base model is capable of. Please note the blue line as the OEM horsepower output as discussed before. These numbers are indicative and demonstrate the actual whp/torque output of the base model. Even given the addition of the aFe Cat Back, the VN Base Model whp output is still under that of the VN/PP. (Note; Red line on dyno graph @ 223.03 whp w/modified exhaust & 239.09 whp stock exhaust.) This is considerably less that the VN/PP stock.

100% agree. The information in general on tuning is vague at best. No consistency as there are not enough of these cars on the road.
Hence why I have not tuned. I want to see a tuned car tested in july on a race track with all else being stock and see how it performs. Frankly, most modded and tuned cars don't do well in that regard and to me that's where the rubber meets the road.
Modifications and tuning go hand in hand. With proper tuning, you can adjust the torque and power delivery for any given modification/s. It can be tuned for maximum power output, which is not practical in all situations or optimal for any given situation. This includes suspension tuning as well and is a complete tuning concept.

If someone tells you an ECU will adapt in a day or so to any given modification/s, they don't understand how an ECU functions. It has to be tuned with the proper fuel and timing mapping.

There is a excellent German turbo manufacturer and tuner, who explains and demonstrates this quite well. They have has pushed the i30N 2,0T Theta II engine to 400 hp, with at Stage II turbo/manifold upgrade and proper tuning. With their Stage I unit the 2.0T Theta II was pushed to over 265 hp but they eventually settled on 350 as safe, without any knock and lower turbo exhaust pressures under 2.5 bar.

These turbo upgrades are available for the V. However, I wouldn't even begin to make such an upgrade, unless the clutch is upgraded along with other suspension modifications. Please keep in mind with such modifications your warranty is gone and you are also placing additional stress on engine internals. So you plan to embark on these upgrades, proceed with caution and diligence to other portions of the powertrain and suspension.
 

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also 13 in brakes up front , a electronically controlled lsd diff , a few less controllable things in the N grin engine management sys , 25 less hp same torque , and pp has 19 in tires -rims . and unless i foregot something (which at my advanced ags #!?) to pawn a phraze unless i foregot something i remembered ?? ya"all have a good one
 
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