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Discussion Starter #1
So guys, not even a break-in yet, a little below 500 miles, and I was wondering if it's too soon to use a fuel additive just to help mitigate carbon buildup



I drive about 400 miles a week, so I'm thinking of using a bottle a month. Smart thinking or way off?? Thanks!
 

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My plan is to use it 1 fillup before each oil change, I don't like to leave any potential additive that may have found it's way to the crankcase in there too long.
 

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I use this stuff every 2 to 3 fill ups. It's so safe you can use it at each fill up. It adds lubricity to the gas and is better for the fuel pump. It also raises the BTU rating in the gas to burn more effectively and completely and does add mpg too. Idles better as well. Been using it for years.

Br,

-Mike

https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-treatments/lucas-fuel-treatment
 

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It's a little early to utilize and additive. Wait till you get 1500-2000 miles for the first use. It's more for keeping fuel injectors flowing properly, then valves at this point.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'll can use all this advice...Ive used lucas before in other cars...I'll give it a few miles before I use the first bottle.
 

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GDI engines are a completely different setup than carbureated or Port Fuel Injected engines. While a treatment such as Lucas or Seafoam may help with carbon deposits inside the cylinder, they'll do absolutely nothing for carbon on the valves due to the direct injection.

What causes carbon build up on valves? During the exhaust stroke, the intake valve is shut tight, so it'll only get a bit from the actual combustion process. The "italian tune up" should help with that if done regularly :D. It's the carbon build up on the intake side of the valves that can build up unchecked, and fuel treatments won't touch them. Why? Because the intake manifold is "dry". No air/fuel mixture ever touches it. All air/fuel is mixed in the cylinder. Your EGR system backfeeds some exhaust into the intake to do a second burn to help clean up any un-burned hydrocarbons, but it's loaded with carbon, which is not getting washed off the intake valves because they're dry.

There's a few ways to help with that... An oil catch can will remove most oil blow by from the PCV system before it re-enters the intake manifold, which is also helpful on a GDI engine. You can also use a spray in cleaner (VERY, VERY CAREFULLY! Don't want to dump a ton in and hydrolock your engine) such as the seafoam aerosol sprayed (slowly) into the throttle body while engine is idling to help clean and break up carbon deposits, or you can just pop off the intake manifold and clean the valves with some carb cleaner, but that's slow and messy (but ultimately the best solution). A little bit of overkill if you ask me, but doable if you're handy and not afraid of taking things apart.

Honestly, I'd run the car with a catch can, get it up to the upper RPM limits on a fairly regular basis to get cylinder temps up and burn off the carbon, and change the oil regularly. Assess at around 20k with a borescope and see how it's doing.
 

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No air/fuel mixture ever touches it.
Actually it does by way of oil dilution especially in a GDI. What is not burnt in the combustion, recycles thru the PCV and emission system to be burnt in the cylinder. Additionally, by blowby at the rings, in the form of oil and fuel/oil/water vapor. The intake valves do not run dry either. The problem is, it's an oil/fuel vapor which causes a carbon build on the tops of intake valves and piston tops. It also affects; fuel injection rails, fuel injectors and intake components. The only thing it doesn't affect is the MAP sensor.
Would be nice if there were some sort of mister that could install inline after the catch can and introduce some mild cleaning.

But I guess that's what water meth can do, among other things.
Yes, a water injection system can keep the engine cleaner and I emphasis water. There is enough ethanol being injected in the system already at 10 to 15% from the pump.

The BG GDI service however uses a sensor port to and adapter to complete clean the system; intake valves, piston crowns, FI rails and FI's. and throttle body and is the only way to keep the intake valves clean besides tearing in to the head and walnut blasting or scraping the carbon off the valves.

https://www.bgprod.com/services/gasoline-fuel-services/platinum-fuel-system-service/
https://www.bgprod.com/reference/kia-hyundai-2-0l-turbo-engines/
https://www.bgprod.com/reference/kia-hyundai-2-0l-turbo-engines-video/

On the pgs listed above you'll see the results from before and after the DGI cleaning.

The system works well, I've had it done on my sons KIA and will shortly on my wifes 2019 Hyundai Accent Limited. Every 15K miles!
 

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I do plan on trying the bg service, dealership advertised it when I was in for a recall. Old habit but so far I've not used any gas containing ethanol, now considering it may have some cleaning benefits and worth working into the rotation every 3rd fillup or so. Any performance or reliability pro's to e10 or e15 over pure gas?
 

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E10 and E15 are equally as fine but don't go the E85 route, it's far to corrosive on engine parts. Ethanol fuels burn more efficient and helps to keep carbon deposits down but too much ethanol is corrosive. They don't do so by themselves but in conjunction with detergents and other additives. However, they will help to keep condensation at bay in the fuel system. Especially, in humid and damp climates. Regular fuels not containing ethanol, will not.

Ethanol E15 will save you money at the pump, as it cost less the regular gasoline and it's fine too run in newer automobiles.
 

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E10 and E15 are equally as fine but don't go the E85 route, it's far to corrosive on engine parts. Ethanol fuels burn more efficient and helps to keep carbon deposits down but too much ethanol is corrosive. They don't do so by themselves but in conjunction with detergents and other additives. However, they will help to keep condensation at bay in the fuel system. Especially, in humid and damp climates. Regular fuels not containing ethanol, will not.

Ethanol E15 will save you money at the pump, as it cost less the regular gasoline and it's fine too run in newer automobiles.

But ideally not in the Veloster N as the only E15 I see near me is 88 octane. While I understand the knock sensors can let the N run on lower octane, it will pull timing like crazy to keep from knocking. My wife's last two vehicles have had Ford's Ecoboost 2.0T and we ran 91 (best available in our area) in them both because I know how Turbos work and that we will get at best reduced performance, and at worst major engine issues on a steady diet of regular gas.


May I ask how much to expect to pay on that BG service? I'll check with my dealership when I make the purchase of the car too (they are an authorized service center for it).
 

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88 octane mid grade you're correct but when E15 becomes much more wide spread, it will be offered in 91+ octane. We run premium in everything, I don't mess with lower grades.

$250-$300 at most places and well worth the cost. there are other authorized service centers as well. Just look under their dealers list. Personally, I consider it cheap insurance.

My sons Kia 2015 1.6 fuel economy started to decline and we had it done. It immediately picked back up and is over his original fuel economy. Power was much better too. You'll have to get the oil changed after between 600-1000 miles but that's no issue.
 

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88 octane mid grade you're correct but when E15 becomes much more wide spread, it will be offered in 91+ octane. We run premium in everything, I don't mess with lower grades.

$250-$300 at most places and well worth the cost. there are other authorized service centers as well. Just look under their dealers list. Personally, I consider it cheap insurance.

My sons Kia 2015 1.6 fuel economy started to decline and we had it done. It immediately picked back up and is over his original fuel economy. Power was much better too. You'll have to get the oil changed after between 600-1000 miles but that's no issue.

That makes perfect sense, you'd have the diluted carbon hanging out in the oil/filter.


Noted to schedule that in a couple of weeks before an oil change once I pick up the car and get some miles on it.
 

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The intake manifold looks to be really easy to remove on this car, I intend to do walnut media valve cleaning every 30K on mine, in addition to foaming top engine cleaner sprayed into a manifold vacuum port before every oil change. That's what's worked best for me on my previous DI cars. Driving normally and not too lightly also helps keep the valves heat soaked which helps them repel carbon (the steam vapor that occurs from the valves contacting the water in the incoming breather gasses provides this)



I disagree on a catch can being a help. Most of what collects in the can is water that's a byproduct of the fuel combustion (it's mixed with oil and fuel and is tan or yellow looking so it may not seem to be water but it is). That water helps prevent the oil and fuel it's carrying from accumulating on the valves and helps prevent carbon introduced during the EGR cycle from sticking. EGR is done using the VVT on motors without EGR valves. My experience has been that catching that water lets the EGR carbon accumulate worse and you end up with dry rock hard carbon deposits that are harder to clean off than the sticky wet deposits that normally accumulate. Mounting the can in a warm spot in the bay helps, but if you do a lot of short trip driving it may never get hot enough to prevent the water from condensing in the can anyway. IMO, skip the breather can.
 

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I agree that a catch can may hurt just as much as it helps (and therefore possibly not worth installing) but only thing I wanted to point out is that the contents collected in mine was a very dark black oily mixture.

I have temporarily removed the can but if/when I reinstall it I may send the contents off to be analyzed just to get an idea what it's collecting.
 

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Using top tier, 91 or better gas is the first step to prevent carbon build up behind the intake valves. Top Tier has detergents that prevent carbon build up.

Ethanol is a strong detergent itself and running 10% is all you need. Don't use gas additives. Period. Many are ethanol based and running e10 with an ethanol based has additive can result is running too much ethanol, which will lean out your AFR.

A catch can is the best way to prevent sludge and carbon build up.

There is NO ADDITIVE that can help with intake valve carbon and sludge build up. There's just no physical way for it to reach the back side of the air intake valves since the fuel is delivered directly to the combustion chamber.

Doing a Sea Foam service (through the vacuum system) can help clean up the sludge too. However, an ounce of prevention works a lot better.

Cheap gas is not cheaper in the long run with a GDI car.
 

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I agree that a catch can may hurt just as much as it helps (and therefore possibly not worth installing) but only thing I wanted to point out is that the contents collected in mine was a very dark black oily mixture.

I have temporarily removed the can but if/when I reinstall it I may send the contents off to be analyzed just to get an idea what it's collecting.

Well, if you want to see if it's water put it in the freezer. If it freezes solid then you know your answer. The contents of mine was a black, dark brown oily substance. Next oil change I just may freeze it and see.

Best regards,

-Mike
 
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