[toogqforyou]

 

[RedVN]

Yeah and if you noticed, they didn't run it in the N mode either. Sounded just like ours in normal mode. Hence the lower whp readings. Eco, Normal, Sport and N Modes have different fuel maps in the ECU along with other notable changes. The exhaust note was a definite give away. Sometimes this is purposeful for a tuner to show great gains later on and sometimes out of shear ignorance. Could be a bit of both. they also used a Mustang Dyno which is notorious for lower whp readings.

Blessings and Peace

 

[CherryBomb]

Has anyone dyno'd in N mode on vid? Seen a few like this in Normal.

 

[RedVN]

Yes, Garage Line did with the VN in N-Mode. They got a good run of 250 whp. This is about 11%-12% loss @ the wheels.

 

[IKR]

Yeah and if you noticed, they didn't run it in the N mode either. Sounded just like ours in normal mode. Hence the lower whp readings. Eco, Normal, Sport and N Modes have different fuel maps in the ECU along with other notable changes. The exhaust note was a definite give away. Sometimes this is purposeful for a tuner to show great gains later on and sometimes out of shear ignorance. Could be a bit of both. they also used a Mustang Dyno which is notorious for lower whp readings.

Blessings and Peace

It's probably the pessimist in me but I think running it in normal mode is for the purpose of saying "hey look at these great gains". Regardless, that 235 whp is not bad for running in Normal mode and on a Mustang dyno.

 

[nomad17]

There are dyno's showing the different modes on the same car, same dyno, same day and eco was the most powerful (not as overly rich afr as the more aggressive modes). I think it's mainly throttle response that ramps up.

 

[FixxxerKH202]

There are dyno's showing the different modes on the same car, same dyno, same day and eco was the most powerful (not as overly rich afr as the more aggressive modes). I think it's mainly throttle response that ramps up.

That is complete b/s. The boost values, valve timing, throttle response, afrs, ignition timing all change. I keep seeing everyone talk about these fictional dyno results just stop with the misinformation already. The modes aren't really intended to change peak power either, they change when you achieve peak power and for how long it holds the powerband.

So this is easy to understand a car can make 350hp but only at say a 500rpm range starting at 5500rpm with the boost ramping in slowly to that point. Now close that wastegate adjust timing(cam and ignition) so that it builds peak boost faster and now you may have an engine making 350hp for a 3200rpm range starting at 2800rpm. Now both cars make the same peak power, but one has peak power for 2700rpm extra and WILL be faster than the car with the 500rpm peak power range.

 

[nomad17]

I understand what you're saying, theoretically, but I'm just not sure it applies in this case. Unless you have something that shows the actual differences between modes all I have seen so far is Post #40 of this build.

https://n-cars.net/forums/threads/there-is-no-plan.2765/page-2

 

[RedVN]

Most of the differences are from overboost, which will sustain peak boost over a longer rpm duration. If you compare dynos with the base model VN and the VN/PP, you'll see it fairly clearly. Just keep mind, the VN AFR's are quite rich across the rpm range in every mode. After 4500 rpm boost taper off quite rapidly.

 

[FixxxerKH202]

I understand what you're saying, theoretically, but I'm just not sure it applies in this case. Unless you have something that shows the actual differences between modes all I have seen so far is Post #40 of this build.

https://n-cars.net/forums/threads/there-is-no-plan.2765/page-2

I've been tuning vehicles for 15 years, it just takes a basic understanding of how the ECM being used works and what causes anti lag, power curve changes, and ramping in boost. You achieve all this by modifying the parameters that I listed in the last post.

 

[nomad17]

Ok but the Eco dyno shows no less power anywhere in the rpm range, and more at higher rpm's. I would expect sport and sport+ to increase power but the only data I can find says otherwise.

These are not "fictional dynos", as you called them.

Was my only point.

I fully expect (hope) to eventually find proof that the "engine response" settings increase power.

 

[RedVN]

You've got nothing to prove.:smile:

 

[FixxxerKH202]

Ok but the Eco dyno shows no less power anywhere in the rpm range, and more at higher rpm's. I would expect sport and sport+ to increase power but the only data I can find says otherwise.

These are not "fictional dynos", as you called them.

Was my only point.

I fully expect (hope) to eventually find proof that the "engine response" settings increase power.

If you find that compelling and reliable with as much monkeying around he did and the talk of heatsoak and nothing actually logging the ecm direct then go right ahead. Go on the highway right now and from a decent rolling speed get on it in both modes at the same speed and you will find a hard time agreeing with him.

I will have to do some research because I am more familiar with GM vehicles, but getting into the ECM is going to be the only real answer. You need to see what the VE tables look like and the cam and timing end of it. GM uses virtual VE now and they use cam position tables to adjust the variable valve timing and some ECMs allow you to add additional tables which acts like our N and drive mode button, early ones I was able to use a cruise control or existing button to trigger a different tune. In these set-ups you can use the cam position to help with lag and other boost characteristics by making the engine flow differently.

I would like the ability to log my ecm when running at the track so I will reach out to some people more involved with Hyundai's and see if I can get something existing to read some PIDs from it. I'm sure it's probably an off the shelf Bosch unit underneath the cover given the BMW engineer running the show.

 

[RedVN]

First thing you need to be doing is; data logging.

Degreeing cams will serve no purpose or effect with the CVVT used in the 2.0T Theta II. I can guarantee the ECU used in the Veloster N is not a Bosch. To lead you in the right direction, it's a Siemens.

To get into the VE tables, you're going to need the right tuning software & hardware. Unless you're actually planning to crack the ECU, it's not worth the expense for the software or equipment, it's cost is prohibitive. It will cost between $395 and $465 for a new ECU and the additional software/hardware will put it into the $3500-$5000 dollar range. Unless you're really familiar with this particular ECU, you won't get very far. $3K-$5K for getting a view of the VE tables is simply, not practical.

There are a few software/hardware systems available for the VN ECU but not many. We've discussed this elsewhere on other forums. So, there is no sense duplicating the information and giving away the farm here. Some of the information is available but not much.:smile:

The ECU has just recently been cracked by a few individuals and tuning companies. They aren't about to make the information openly available to anyone and hurt their individual sales or prospects of individualized tuning. So you're only means at the moment is; to data log.