Hyundai Veloster N Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anybody added meth injection to their N? If you have, how is it? I'm looking at adding a Snow Performance Stage 3 Meth Kit. Also will be doing the new Sxth Intercooler, and Downpipe. Along with tune of course. Was curious how the performance was with meth injection.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
I have a Snow Performance stage 1 kit I'm looking at possibly installing this weekend -- I'll be running sans tune for a little bit, mainly doing it for IATs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,108 Posts
There have been a few installs on the VN. There's a few excellent kits but honestly, until you start to produce way more boost, you can save the money and spend it elsewhere.

AEM
Snows
Stealth
Devils Own
AquaMist

Stage III is overkill. Unless you decide to go into the engine internals, it's not worth the extra expense. One thing to keep in mind, this will void your engine warranty, especially if they find any remnants of an install. Read the Hyundai Assurance Track Warranty it spells it out quite clearly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Really the difference between the stages isn't about how much extra cooling or power they will add or support. It's about how well they control the injection.

The big advantage of the stage 2 kit is it doesn't hit all at once, but rather in two stages, so you can bring the injection on at a lower boost without causing one big sudden disruption (bogging it or spiking it rich with a sudden surge of extra fuel). It's still not exactly a smooth transition though, even with dual stage.

The stage 3 kit gets rid of the spikes that occur when the previous kits would start their single or dual stages because the stage 3 is progressive and starts off injecting very little and then ramps the injection amount up smoothly to the maximum. This system is by far the safest and best if you can afford it, no matter how you plan to use the system.


Even better than a stage 3 kit is a stage 3 kit with the direct port upgrade. When you inject into the IC pipe or at the throttle body spacer the mixture will not evenly distribute to all the cylinders. It will be roughly close, but not completely even. A direct port kit puts a nozzle in each intake runner (usually used with something like the boomba intake manifold spacer that's been drilled and tapped for nozzles). With a metered nozzle in each runner you know each cylinder is getting an even injection amount and you don't have risk of one cylinder having a different AFR or effective octane than the average of the four cylinders combined.


I wouldn't run anything but a progressive (stage 3) WMI kit on a stock tune though, because you are essentially adding fuel that the ECM will be forced to account for on it's own and it's a lot easier for the ECM to do that if there aren't spikes where it starts injecting water/meth. The stock AFR feedback will account for it somewhat, but only if you run WMI all the time and in a small enough quantity that it falls within what the ECM can correct on the stock fuel trim tables. Again, easier to do with the progressive controllers that let you adjust the injection amount without needing to swap nozzles for every change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,108 Posts
How it works is not the issue. Most who have utilized such systems, know how different stages work. :smile:

The biggest factor and issue here is; simply the the amount of meth mix utilized, engine seals, accelerated wear, including loss of engine warranty, along with initial cost of the system, maintenance and actual benefit. Unless you're going to run boost pressures over 30 psi, it's just not that effective and doing so with this open deck engine and OEM internals is not at all advisable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
How it works is not the issue. Most who have utilized such systems, know how different stages work. :smile:

The biggest factor and issue here is; simply the the amount of meth mix utilized, engine seals, accelerated wear, including loss of engine warranty, along with initial cost of the system, maintenance and actual benefit. Unless you're going to run boost pressures over 30 psi, it's just not that effective and doing so with this open deck engine and OEM internals is not at all advisable.
Don't you have an aftermarket BOV? That also leads to loss of warranty, which is probably not a concern for a lot of people that are going the tuning and wmi route.

I'm curious how an open deck block and the stock internals play into this though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,108 Posts
I take full responsibility for all the modified changes to my VN, with my dealership. They know exactly what I've done up to this point and we've an understanding. Most owners will pull the meth injection and unauthorized modification in hopes to keep their warranty and claims. It's best to be up front with them and attempt to establish a good rapport.

Tuning and Meth injection will add additional boost pressure. The more cylinder pressure the more issues.

Cylinder pressure is always a problem with open deck block, as well as crank bearing, rods, wrist pins, pistons etc. You aren't able modify the top of the cylinder sleeve to accept a seal to accommodate for the increased cylinder pressures. Which leads to blown head gaskets, cylinder heads, stud problems, etc.. If you never seen a cylinder head pop off due to high cylinder pressure you just aren't aware. As little as 25 psi across the rpm range can cause such problems. An open deck block, is very limited in the amount of cylinder pressure it can take.

This will give you a bit of insight as to why and is far easier then me typing all the information;
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Thanks to both Destrux and RedVN for giving useful information to the readers...
I am unlikely to utilize any of these systems, but getting useful explanatory information about the options available, how they work, and potential consequences is largely why I read this forum. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is not fully knowledgeable in these matters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm looking to increase torque as much as I can in this little beast. Also want to push boost pressures too at least 18psi. Stock pressure is 14psi maxed out. What I plan to do will void my warranty anyways with the car. So why not go for it. Looking at also getting the stock turbo rebuilt or replaced. This is the fun car. Not a huge speed head, but a torque head I am. This car is already **** good. But there is a lot more in this car I do believe. Albert Biermann himself said they designed the car for the enthusiast to have fun and change parts out. And that's what I'm going to do. I've got 12,000 miles on mine and still all stock. Have saved $15,000 for mods and it's time to have. But dang everybody needs to hurry with more performance parts. I mean is Sxth and Boomba and Forge the only companies making more than one mod for this lil car? I have found a lot of the I30N parts will fit the Veloster N. Been in talks with Turbo Dynamics about a new turbo or rebuilding mine. That's pricy. But was really looking at meth injection for helping keep the valves clean and lower IAT's. The added kick in the octane boost is just a nice side effect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,108 Posts
Stock boost pressure with overboost is max at 21 psi. The problem is the tune. It doesn't maintain boost pressure across the rpm range. It tapers off far to quickly from 4500 rpm to redline.

There are tons of companies offering i30N parts, which fit the VN. Far more than the three you just mentioned. Most are in Europe and Korea, you just have to look and be willing to spend the money to have them shipped.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I talked to the guys at SXTH Element last week about turbo upgrades and they're working on one with an upgraded exhaust and compressor wheel stuffed into the stock housing that is supposed to be able to make more power than the Klasen Motors 400bhp "stuffed turbo"

I'm looking to increase torque as much as I can in this little beast. Also want to push boost pressures too at least 18psi. Stock pressure is 14psi maxed out. What I plan to do will void my warranty anyways with the car. So why not go for it. Looking at also getting the stock turbo rebuilt or replaced. This is the fun car. Not a huge speed head, but a torque head I am. This car is already **** good. But there is a lot more in this car I do believe. Albert Biermann himself said they designed the car for the enthusiast to have fun and change parts out. And that's what I'm going to do. I've got 12,000 miles on mine and still all stock. Have saved $15,000 for mods and it's time to have. But dang everybody needs to hurry with more performance parts. I mean is Sxth and Boomba and Forge the only companies making more than one mod for this lil car? I have found a lot of the I30N parts will fit the Veloster N. Been in talks with Turbo Dynamics about a new turbo or rebuilding mine. That's pricy. But was really looking at meth injection for helping keep the valves clean and lower IAT's. The added kick in the octane boost is just a nice side effect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
I'm looking to increase torque as much as I can in this little beast. Also want to push boost pressures too at least 18psi. Stock pressure is 14psi maxed out. What I plan to do will void my warranty anyways with the car. So why not go for it. Looking at also getting the stock turbo rebuilt or replaced. This is the fun car. Not a huge speed head, but a torque head I am. This car is already **** good. But there is a lot more in this car I do believe. Albert Biermann himself said they designed the car for the enthusiast to have fun and change parts out. And that's what I'm going to do. I've got 12,000 miles on mine and still all stock. Have saved $15,000 for mods and it's time to have. But dang everybody needs to hurry with more performance parts. I mean is Sxth and Boomba and Forge the only companies making more than one mod for this lil car? I have found a lot of the I30N parts will fit the Veloster N. Been in talks with Turbo Dynamics about a new turbo or rebuilding mine. That's pricy. But was really looking at meth injection for helping keep the valves clean and lower IAT's. The added kick in the octane boost is just a nice side effect.
.


It's going to come for sure, we'll see this car being built into 500-600whp monsters some day. It takes a few years though for people to break, rebuild, repeat till they find what all needs to be done to get there.


If you're handy with google translate (or know german) there's a lot of great info about this car on german websites and forums (or, well, about the i30N but close enough to the same car).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
PROS: The cooler IAT and cooler cylinder temps sound mighty attractive, but as I learned more from you guys, and literally just a preliminary youtube/google search,

The cons sound pretty awful. RedVN mentioned lowering the longevity of the engine. A youtube video + other people mentioned how without a tune, you actually LOWER Horsepower.

My Question is, would a aftermarket intake, catless downpipe, plus a piggyback satisfy the "tune" requirement for the addition of a MWI system? Or do you have to actually get the MWI system and the engine specifically tuned together? Im literally running out of things to do to the car that I bought an oil cooler for $500 the other day. Mainly because I do WOT pulls like a maniac sometimes....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,108 Posts
PROS: The cooler IAT and cooler cylinder temps sound mighty attractive, but as I learned more from you guys, and literally just a preliminary youtube/google search,

The cons sound pretty awful. RedVN mentioned lowering the longevity of the engine. A youtube video + other people mentioned how without a tune, you actually LOWER Horsepower.

My Question is, would a aftermarket intake, catless downpipe, plus a piggyback satisfy the "tune" requirement for the addition of a MWI system? Or do you have to actually get the MWI system and the engine specifically tuned together? Im literally running out of things to do to the car that I bought an oil cooler for $500 the other day. Mainly because I do WOT pulls like a maniac sometimes....
Maybe, depending upon the piggy tuner utilized. The JB4 and Lap3 have a specific map for water/meth injection.

In any case, I wouldn't utilize meth at all, just water. The water will help to clean up carbon deposits and keep the cylinder combustion much cooler while allowing more boost. Adding additional Meth to 10 or 15 % percent ethanol, is a quick death to the engine seals. It will also void the warranty and is easy to check for.

I'll also note; if the dealer service finds evidence of install of MWI, they'll void the warranty on the spot. it's a big no no!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,108 Posts
.


It's going to come for sure, we'll see this car being built into 500-600whp monsters some day. It takes a few years though for people to break, rebuild, repeat till they find what all needs to be done to get there.


If you're handy with google translate (or know german) there's a lot of great info about this car on german websites and forums (or, well, about the i30N but close enough to the same car).
Torque and boost limiters for the MT, are not your friend and need to be dealt with appropriately in the proper ECU tune. Without doing so, will throw the engine into limp mode or an overboost condition really quickly.

The DCT is far worse with TCU torque and boost limiters in both the ECU and TCU. To go further than 337 ft lb of torque with the DCT, it will take more than just a proper tune for the ECU and TCU but improved transmission internals. Hyundai took great pains in limiting the torque availability to the DCT for good reason.

They only way this engine will ever be pushed into a 500+whp area is with first; close decking the short block, adding much improved internals, including crank, along with appropriate upgrades in turbo, intake and exhaust manifolds and corresponding bolt ons. No performance manufacturer are presently working on anything to put the VN 2.0 Theta II engine into this whp category and I doubt such parts will be forthcoming in the near future. The VN is now in its third production year and the manufacture of such internal performance parts isn't occurring, even in SK let alone the US.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
Torque and boost limiters for the MT, are not your friend and need to be dealt with appropriately in the proper ECU tune. Without doing so, will throw the engine into limp mode or an overboost condition really quickly.

The DCT is far worse with TCU torque and boost limiters in both the ECU and TCU. To go further than 337 ft lb of torque with the DCT, it will take more than just a proper tune for the ECU and TCU but improved transmission internals. Hyundai took great pains in limiting the torque availability to the DCT for good reason.

They only way this engine will ever be pushed into a 500+whp area is with first; close decking the short block, adding much improved internals, including crank, along with appropriate upgrades in turbo, intake and exhaust manifolds and corresponding bolt ons. No performance manufacturer are presently working on anything to put the VN 2.0 Theta II engine into this whp category and I doubt such parts will be forthcoming in the near future. The VN is now in its third production year and the manufacture of such internal performance parts isn't occurring, even in SK let alone the US.
Dunno if this is legit but here are some forged pistons and I think rods else where on this website for the i30n..

but yeah not much love for this car after market wise ; ;

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
PROS: The cooler IAT and cooler cylinder temps sound mighty attractive, but as I learned more from you guys, and literally just a preliminary youtube/google search,

The cons sound pretty awful. RedVN mentioned lowering the longevity of the engine. A youtube video + other people mentioned how without a tune, you actually LOWER Horsepower.

My Question is, would a aftermarket intake, catless downpipe, plus a piggyback satisfy the "tune" requirement for the addition of a MWI system? Or do you have to actually get tuned-tuned . Im literally running out of things to do to the car that I bought an oil cooler for $500 the other day. Mainly because I do WOT pulls like a maniac sometimes....
I have those and a jb4 and I think it should be fine.
Torque and boost limiters for the MT, are not your friend and need to be dealt with appropriately in the proper ECU tune. Without doing so, will throw the engine into limp mode or an overboost condition really quickly.

The DCT is far worse with TCU torque and boost limiters in both the ECU and TCU. To go further than 337 ft lb of torque with the DCT, it will take more than just a proper tune for the ECU and TCU but improved transmission internals. Hyundai took great pains in limiting the torque availability to the DCT for good reason.

They only way this engine will ever be pushed into a 500+whp area is with first; close decking the short block, adding much improved internals, including crank, along with appropriate upgrades in turbo, intake and exhaust manifolds and corresponding bolt ons. No performance manufacturer are presently working on anything to put the VN 2.0 Theta II engine into this whp category and I doubt such parts will be forthcoming in the near future. The VN is now in its third production year and the manufacture of such internal performance parts isn't occurring, even in SK let alone the US.
Intresting I will be approaching those torque numbers soon. So I'll see what the dyno says. I've hit up to 27.5 psi of boost what is the limiter at?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
Maybe, depending upon the piggy tuner utilized. The JB4 and Lap3 have a specific map for water/meth injection.

In any case, I wouldn't utilize meth at all, just water. The water will help to clean up carbon deposits and keep the cylinder combustion much cooler while allowing more boost. Adding additional Meth to 10 or 15 % percent ethanol, is a quick death to the engine seals. It will also void the warranty and is easy to check for.

I'll also note; if the dealer service finds evidence of install of MWI, they'll void the warranty on the spot. it's a big no no!
This sounds like a no compromise, win/win situation with just running water? :eek:

Clean intake valves
Cooler cylinder temps
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top