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They purchase thru Brian Herta Racing, which is the TCR team reps from the US.
they have obviously purchased at least one from Bryan Herta, but SXTH is claiming the ones they sell are directly through HMSG (Hyundai Motorsports Germany)

HMSG, is who in that email I provided, claiming SXTH does not and has not purchased from them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #122 ·
HMSG, is who in that email I provided, claiming SXTH does not and has not purchased from them.
Playing devils advocate, HMS did state that IF someone stateside wanted to buy one they would HAVE to go through Brian Herta Motorsport since they are the only authorized vendor in the US of HMS parts. SXTH cannot buy direct from HMSG.

Also SXTH only claims that it is the TCR pump from Germany, they do not say that they bought the pump from HMSG or that they sell on a drop ship basis from HMSG
 

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Playing devils advocate, HMS did state that IF someone stateside wanted to buy one they would HAVE to go through Brian Herta Motorsport since they are the only authorized vendor in the US of HMS parts. SXTH cannot buy direct from HMSG.

Also SXTH only claims that it is the TCR pump from Germany, they do not say that they bought the pump from HMSG or that they sell on a drop ship basis from HMSG
I hear ya, and to that. I repost a screenshot that another posted in this thread from SXTH.

along with that, I’ll add that SXTH has told me these pumps are DIRECT from HMSG. In my eyes direct does not mean from HMSG to Bryan Herta to SXTH.

so if ONE came from Bryan Herta. HMSG has sold them none... where Are the others coming from? Why use the word direct?
5722
 

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Discussion Starter · #124 ·
I hear ya, and to that. I repost a screenshot that another posted in this thread from SXTH.

along with that, I’ll add that SXTH has told me these pumps are DIRECT from HMSG. In my eyes direct does not mean from HMSG to Bryan Herta to SXTH.

so if ONE came from Bryan Herta. HMSG has sold them none... where Are the others coming from? Why use the word direct? View attachment 5722
Well this is interesting.

-"Our first one we bought from Bryan Herta Autosport" ... Where are they getting them from now? Unless the person contacted at HMSG had no knowledge of SXTHs buying history I would be very interested in who their supplier is...

-I have yet to see one of their boxes with the 353035G01 number stamped on it aside from the single picture we saw from Bryan Herta.

-Leads me back to... they stock these. They are not a drop ship from Alzenau, or Brian Herta.



I'll go back to what we discussed earlier: I am totally cool with it not being a TCR pump if it meets the needs of the vehicle. I am not cool with it being sold as a TCR pump, paying a premium price, and having it not be the genuine article.
 

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-“Unless the person contacted at HMSG had no knowledge of SXTHs buying history”

The person contacted was the senior sales manager.

-“I'll go back to what we discussed earlier: I am totally cool with it not being a TCR pump if it meets the needs of the vehicle. I am not cool with it being sold as a TCR pump, paying a premium price, and having it not be the genuine article.”

I completely agree with you on both points. I just need to know that the part works. With as many people who have had success with the part, I truly do trust it, and believe it’s a reasonable upgrade to our cars. I don’t need to know exactly what part it is, but do not lie and make me believe the part is something that it is not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #126 ·
The person contacted was the senior sales manager.
In that case I'd like to think that they'd know who is buying from them. Interesting.

I completely agree with you on both points. I just need to know that the part works. With as many people who have had success with the part, I truly do trust it, and believe it’s a reasonable upgrade to our cars. I don’t need to know exactly what part it is, but do not lie and make me believe the part is something that it is not.
My single concern for this is that it truly is the standard Sonata pump, being overdriven by our camshaft. I know the HPFP is camshaft driven by a rounded square lobe but I am unsure of its dimensions. It may provide better or adequate fuel pressure, but it might be providing that by being mechanically overdriven by the Veloster N camshaft. This could cause a longevity problem down the road as its likely not designed to operate at those limits.
 

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I hear ya, and to that. I repost a screenshot that another posted in this thread from SXTH.

along with that, I’ll add that SXTH has told me these pumps are DIRECT from HMSG. In my eyes direct does not mean from HMSG to Bryan Herta to SXTH.

so if ONE came from Bryan Herta. HMSG has sold them none... where Are the others coming from? Why use the word direct? View attachment 5722
That's because you're guessing, not asking. You're limiting your perspective based upon an email received from one source. That source doesn't know who SXTH Element it because SXTH Element buys them from Herta. They still come from Germany nevertheless from the same original source. What SXTH told you was correct they do come from Germany by way of Herta Racing. Why use the word "direct, " because they did come from HMS direct from Germany.

I don't understand your inability to comprehend this. The rest is simply your personal doubt.
My assumption is that HMS sells the pump with the compression fitting. The compression fitting is in various pictures of actual TCR cars engine bays, in the exact same color anodizing. Cortenay is likely offering the snap fitting to make it easier to install in road cars. I believe you have it backwards, and the snap fitting is added as a secondary option to how it ships. Why else would HMS specifically say the SXTH pump “clearly differs” from the one they provide Cortenay.
Again, this is your presumption/assumption. Cortenay sells it with the original smap fitting connection. or the compression fitting added. Seriously though mate, you need to read and understand more than simply guessing. Please read the direct quote from Cortenay's web page below;
Genuine Hyundai Motorsport high pressure fuel pump as used on i30 N TCR. Uprated internals to increase fuel pressure at the the injectors, for more torque and power. The pump is based on the factory fuel pump and is a direct fit under the road cars factory engine cover and sound insulation.
Can be supplied with 9/16th adaptor hard line fitting as per TCR car
(Red & Blue anodised fitting in picture) or with the production i30 road cars quick connector.
This will end all the misplaced conjecture and speculation. The compression fitting is added by Cortenay after the fact, not as it is received. This is the same with Carlicious as well.

Now that this is cleared up, we all understand the HMS HPFP comes with the original SNAP FITTING OEM CONNECTOR. I believe all other issues are moot.

I understand and know SXTH Element purchases the HMS HPFP from Herta Racing in the very form HMS sends it to them. As I said, the rest is mere conjecture, speculation and individual doubt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #128 ·
@RedVN I get what you're saying, but essentially you are taking SXTH at face value because:

-They have never lied to you
-You choose to believe them because they said all the right words
-You have seen minimal proof of what you believe is correct


This is too important of a part for me to blindly trust a single company who has told slightly different stories to everyone that has asked. Its mostly the same story: the part comes from HMS, its supplied by Brian Herta, it is made in Alzneau, its an upgrade over the stock pump, its a modified sonata pump etc. But the wording is different between what has been posted as far as screen shots go, I might be picking at straws here but I'd really rather know for certain what I am buying. If Mike comes back with good results from the 845 pump, I'll probably go that route because its around $200 cheaper and will meet my needs. If I was dead set on buying 100% genuine TCR parts I'd either buy from Courtenay or directly from Brian Herta.
 

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No, I take it on what I've researched and been told buy those who sell the HPFP. Said this from the beginning.

I'm not blindly trusting anyone, as I've said in the beginning. The whole issues stemmed around 845 Motorsports and the pump they said, "was the one SXTH Element sold." It isn't and never has been. I prompted you all to ask the questions from the beginning. I have my proof for myself and shared it openly. You're the ones who doubted and are frankly still hung up on your own doubts. Why, because you didn't do the research, ask the right questions or get the directed answers.

I knew all this from the get go, thru personal research, emails and direct conversations, with those I needed to speak to. Otherwise, I knew what I was getting in the beginning before any transaction was made. I checked prior to purchasing and urged (almost pleaded ) for you'll to do the same, with regards to 845 Motorsports. These two guys have not been on the up and up now or in the past. I won't deal with them directly for anything, due their dubious reputations.

Yes, I've corresponded with Bryan Herta Autosports as well. No, I don't make all my personal conversations available online, just like I don't give all my tuning or modification information out publicly. Some things, are always left in reserve. That's just the way it is especially online on a public forum. I do share information openly, to those who ask but I'm just not going to share everything I know and work towards. It's up to the individual to ask the right questions for the right answer.

Apologies, but you're not able to buy from Bryan Herta directly. They don't deal with customer off the street. If you were dead set on buying a HMS HPFP, then you only have to look to SXTH Element and save a whole bunch of money. Here's one for you to chew on; SXTH Element would be selling the a a 1/3 rd higher cost (much closer to Cortenay's price, if they had to purchase directly from HMS in Germany. They'd have to declare customs duty and raise the price for shipping cost alone on the HMS HPFP.

If you go with the HPFP 845 Motorsport, then you'll get a standard OEM Santa Fe/Sonata HPFP. They aren't HMS HPFP, I can assure you.

I have no need or desire to make up fictitious information, that's not me.:)(y)
 

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No, I take it on what I've researched and been told buy those who sell the HPFP. Said this from the beginning.

I'm not blindly trusting anyone, as I've said in the beginning. The whole issues stemmed around 845 Motorsports and the pump they said, "was the one SXTH Element sold." It isn't and never has been. I prompted you all to ask the questions from the beginning. I have my proof for myself and shared it openly. You're the ones who doubted and are frankly still hung up on your own doubts. Why, because you didn't do the research, ask the right questions or get the directed answers.

I knew all this from the get go, thru personal research, emails and direct conversations, with those I needed to speak to. Otherwise, I knew what I was getting in the beginning before any transaction was made. I checked prior to purchasing and urged (almost pleaded ) for you'll to do the same, with regards to 845 Motorsports. These two guys have not been on the up and up now or in the past. I won't deal with them directly for anything, due their dubious reputations.

Yes, I've corresponded with Bryan Herta Autosports as well. No, I don't make all my personal conversations available online, just like I don't give all my tuning or modification information out publicly. Some things, are always left in reserve. That's just the way it is especially online on a public forum. I do share information openly, to those who ask but I'm just not going to share everything I know and work towards. It's up to the individual to ask the right questions for the right answer.

Apologies, but you're not able to buy from Bryan Herta directly. They don't deal with customer off the street. If you were dead set on buying a HMS HPFP, then you only have to look to SXTH Element and save a whole bunch of money. Here's one for you to chew on; SXTH Element would be selling the a a 1/3 rd higher cost (much closer to Cortenay's price, if they had to purchase directly from HMS in Germany. They'd have to declare customs duty and raise the price for shipping cost alone on the HMS HPFP.

If you go with the HPFP 845 Motorsport, then you'll get a standard OEM Santa Fe/Sonata HPFP. They aren't HMS HPFP, I can assure you.

I have no need or desire to make up fictitious information, that's not me.:)(y)
For me, I appreciate everyone’s thoughts and evidence they have found. This may all boil down to SXTH needs to make their supply chain/sourcing more explicit and detail the 'why their part looks different from Courtenay' in their listing. May seem silly but... read on.

For the SXTH debate in the last couple posts:

Imagine a VN owner has not seen these posts and has only seen each of the vendors websites we have talked about. Would that owner be confused? The answer is yes.

All of the back and forth in prior posts could be resolved if SXTH page for the HPFP had more explicit detail.

“We sell the same HMS HPFP used in the TCR car, sourced through the sole US TCR racing team, to provide your car with xyz improvements in fuel pressure. This is not just a fuel pump from another vehicle, it has had the internals modified to ensure consistent fuel pressure under the stress of performance and track driving. Blah blah... buy me

Buyers can’t ignore the difference in price, physical look, color, box branding, etc between SXTH and Courtenay without having questions. Any seller wants to have customers questions answered the easiest way possible so they spend their money — make this happen.


Finally for reference:
I returned the 845 part
I purchased the SXTH part
I’ll give more info when it arrives.
 

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Discussion Starter · #131 ·
For me, I appreciate everyone’s thoughts and evidence they have found. This may all boil down to SXTH needs to make their supply chain/sourcing more explicit and detail the 'why their part looks different from Courtenay' in their listing. May seem silly but... read on.

For the SXTH debate in the last couple posts:

Imagine a VN owner has not seen these posts and has only seen each of the vendors websites we have talked about. Would that owner be confused? The answer is yes.
I'm part of this thread and I am still somewhat confused. SXTH has been transparent, but in a way that makes it seem like there are more details that we aren't getting.

All of the back and forth in prior posts could be resolved if SXTH page for the HPFP had more explicit detail.

“We sell the same HMS HPFP used in the TCR car, sourced through the sole US TCR racing team, to provide your car with xyz improvements in fuel pressure. This is not just a fuel pump from another vehicle, it has had the internals modified to ensure consistent fuel pressure under the stress of performance and track driving. Blah blah... buy me

Buyers can’t ignore the difference in price, physical look, color, box branding, etc between SXTH and Courtenay without having questions. Any seller wants to have customers questions answered the easiest way possible so they spend their money — make this happen.
^ This

Finally for reference:
I returned the 845 part
I purchased the SXTH part
I’ll give more info when it arrives.
Looking forward to your thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #132 ·
Apologies, but you're not able to buy from Bryan Herta directly. They don't deal with customer off the street. If you were dead set on buying a HMS HPFP, then you only have to look to SXTH Element and save a whole bunch of money. Here's one for you to chew on; SXTH Element would be selling the a a 1/3 rd higher cost (much closer to Cortenay's price, if they had to purchase directly from HMS in Germany. They'd have to declare customs duty and raise the price for shipping cost alone on the HMS HPFP.

If you go with the HPFP 845 Motorsport, then you'll get a standard OEM Santa Fe/Sonata HPFP. They aren't HMS HPFP, I can assure you.

I have no need or desire to make up fictitious information, that's not me.:)(y)
I rather figured a regular person could not buy the pump from Brian Herta.

But your bit about the customs doesn't make much sense, Brian Herta has to pay those duties and would pass them through to SXTH. I'm fairly certain that Brian Herta isn't getting the pumps for cost and not having to declare customs when imported, nor do I think they are getting them for free or less than cost on a standard Hyundai pump from HMS. Dealer to dealer cost on the standard 35320-2gta0 pump is $413.39, wholesale $566.75, and retail suggested is $666.76. If Courtenay is selling the TCR pumps at a 1.5 multiplier mark up, the cost is roughly $620.81. SXTH is still making a ~$70 profit if they are able to buy the pumps at cost (incl customs duties) from Brian Herta. I know I am being pedantic and going way too far into this, but without disassembling one and comparing it to the standard pump there is no way to physically tell that it is the real part, and at this point it is probably the only thing that will satisfy me.

No one said you were making anything up, I merely stated that you have your own beliefs and I listed what I thought the reasoning might be behind them :)
 

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This is what I use
I bought the same exact one. The Foxwell NT-301. I'll have it next week some time. I will measure the FP once I get it and we can figure all the craziness out once and for all. In the mean time please don't kill each other. Lol.... Yes, I am just kidding....:ROFLMAO:

Best regards,

-Mike
 

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Herta can write them off as a business expense, where as SXTH Element cannot. Herta doesn’t have a retail outlet. So more than likely, he gets them for free or pennies on the dollar. They just become part of his bench stock.

Otherwise, being sponsored by Hyundai as a factory team, he gets them free of charge HMS. Where as, SXTH has to pay for shipping and import duty. So, it behoves them to purchase domestically from Herta Autosports.

Speaking from hands on experience; When a factory of manufactures sponsorship is acquired, many parts are simply provided to the sponsored individual of team or individual.

I’m sponsored and receive parts free of charge. Some, at a greatly reduced amount, with free shipping as well. I’m free to do what I wish with them, as is Herta Autosports.

This is part of the give and take which happens for; advertisement, promotion and marketing. You have to understand the business of Performance Auto Parts, Racing Teams and the like, as well as Motorsport’s promotion and how it works.

You simply don’t understand the business of sponsorship and promotion. There’s a very big world of promotion out there, beyond what you presently understand, know and realize.

You just have to understand it, have the qualifications, experience, knowledge and resume’ the sponsor or manufacturer requires and is looking for. Then, learn how to self-promote.
 

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Discussion Starter · #135 ·
Herta can write them off as a business expense, where as SXTH Element cannot. Herta doesn’t have a retail outlet. So more than likely, he gets them for free or pennies on the dollar. They just become part of his bench stock.

Otherwise, being sponsored by Hyundai as a factory team, he gets them free of charge HMS. Where as, SXTH has to pay for shipping and import duty. So, it behoves them to purchase domestically from Herta Autosports.
I doubt that BHR gets them for free, in large quantities, and then re-sells them. Its more likely that they are acquired at cost, which is possibly then written off, and re-sold. Its a scummy thing to do to be sponsored a part for free and then go and re-sell it for a profit.

Imagine if you took this prototype oil cooler that Forge sent you, and re-sold it for a profit. Maybe they wouldn't care, but if you did it consistently they might have something to say about it.

Speaking from hands on experience; When a factory of manufactures sponsorship is acquired, many parts are simply provided to the sponsored individual of team or individual.

I’m sponsored and receive parts free of charge. Some, at a greatly reduced amount, with free shipping as well. I’m free to do what I wish with them, as is Herta Autosports.

This is part of the give and take which happens for; advertisement, promotion and marketing. You have to understand the business of Performance Auto Parts, Racing Teams and the like, as well as Motorsport’s promotion and how it works.
Have you been manufacturer sponsored before? They typically assist with the upkeep of the vehicle(s) you / your team are using them to represent their company in, but anything outside of that is likely not free. Normally they allot a budget to these sponsored teams for a given calendar / race year. In BHR's case they are a supplier for TCR parts in the US for any team racing a TCR vehicle, since they are not all manufacturer sponsored. So if BHR has 4 sponsored cars and they suddenly place an order for 20 HPFPs I highly doubt that HMS is sending all 20 of those for free.

You do development / assist in it. You are in essence trading your time / knowledge for the end product, that is especially the case with Forge. Since they do not have a Veloster N of their own in the UK for development and it only usually requires slight tweaks to adapt from the i30N to the VN, you have provided tons of information to them to adapt their products. They then give you a large discount or a free part in exchange. That is not a sponsorship, that is a working relationship since it is conditional (though it is likely that you can obtain other parts from these vendors for free or a steeply discounted rate).

You simply don’t understand the business of sponsorship and promotion. There’s a very big world of promotion out there, beyond what you presently understand, know and realize.

You just have to understand it, have the qualifications, experience, knowledge and resume’ the sponsor or manufacturer requires and is looking for. Then, learn how to self-promote.
Sometimes you say some really great things, other times you say things like this. I am not a child or a "youngster", I am probably younger than you but that doesn't mean that I don't have the same or similar knowledge as you.

I work in supply chain / logistics. I place orders, deal with importing and exporting, I have been sent "samples", and while we do not have sponsorships there is no such thing as a free lunch in any business. I can be the largest volume supplier of product x in my region, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer gives me the product for free or for less than anyone else in the same discount scheme.
 

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Yes as a matter of fact I am now and have been in the past with motorcycles and bass fishing as well.

Again your speaking from inexperience and lack of understanding about the promotional world

I was given a boat, trailer and truck from respective manufactures every year. Ranger boats and Ford trucks. After it was used for that year, I’d sell it and get another from the same sponsors. It’s a sponsorship perk and comp. They most certainly didn’t want it back and it was also written in the contract. I also receive all paid expenses for prefishing, tournament series entry fees, and related expenses expenses, plus aan annual salary.

Also team sponsored by Suzuki and For Men Only Racing, in the UK. Isle of Mann and F-1 Racing which is now called British Superbike.

Because your not involved with it or in it , doesn’t mean it doesn’t exsist. You limit your experience, by not growing beyond your own way of thinking. And present understanding.

Your doing so now by your personal comments of personal offense. None was made or intended. Your simply imagining and vocalizing it .

This happens in the paid professional world everyday. It’s nothing new.
 

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Discussion Starter · #137 ·
I was given a boat, trailer and truck from respective manufactures every year. Ranger boats and Ford trucks. After it was used for that year, I’d sell it and get another from the same sponsors. It’s a sponsorship perk and comp. They most certainly didn’t want it back and it was also written in the contract. I also receive all paid expenses for prefishing, tournament series entry fees, and related expenses expenses, plus aan annual salary.
This is the most important part, none of us know what BHRs contract with HMS is. I am sure it won't be disclosed to any of us so we can just speculate, and we can all continue to assume things that no one knows for sure. Unless you've enquired about BHRs contract and gotten an answer? Just because yours was worded and worked this way, does not mean they all are.


Because your not involved with it or in it , doesn’t mean it doesn’t exsist. You limit your experience, by not growing beyond your own way of thinking. And present understanding.

I never said it didn't exist, I said it was scummy to do. The second half of your statement comes off as rude and condescending, was that your intent? You, personally, do not have any knowledge of my experiences, my growth, or my understanding. I feel like you are making assumptions based on what you are interpreting from my statements.

Your doing so now by your personal comments of personal offense. None was made or intended. Your simply imagining and vocalizing it .

This happens in the paid professional world everyday. It’s nothing new.
I am not offended, just trying to have a debate with everyone here :)

However it does seem like you know all of the answers and just want to shut it down with your insistence that the SXTH pump is genuine and that there is no further need for debate. It may indeed be the case that it is the genuine TCR article, but for some people the word of one man is not enough, and further proof is required.

If you would like to further discuss my personal beliefs or apparent lack of understanding feel free to PM me, I am always up for a conversation. But this thread was made for discussing the options we have for fuel pumps, not to promote / bash vendors or users :)
 

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I don't understand your inability to comprehend this. The rest is simply your personal doubt.
SXTH themselves have said that the first pump was purchased from Bryan Herta. Implying the rest have not been purchased through them.
and again, direct means direct.

words mean things.
 

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This thread would not exist or be at now 138 posts if vendors clearly and distinctly explained the products they were selling in a manner that did not contradict 30 seconds of google searching.

Customers seeking to be 100% sure of a product should be encouraged by everyone, especially other consumers.
 

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This thread would not exist or be at now 138 posts if vendors clearly and distinctly explained the products they were selling in a manner that did not contradict 30 seconds of google searching.

Customers seeking to be 100% sure of a product should be encouraged by everyone, especially other consumers.
Let's not forget the even more annoying reason being that Hyundai is still using inferior fuel pumps in multiple generations of Velosters. Must not have triggered enough warranty claims to necessitate a manufacturing change.
 
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