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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Although I’d planned on waiting for the CSF unit, the mod bug bit.
Hyundai Veloster N Intercooler
For all the geeks out there, here’s a portion of a Motoiq article for a quick read on discussing intercoolers: Project Toyota Supra MKIV: Part 7 - Choosing the right intercooler - MotoIQ
When I consider buying an expensive part, I like to find detailed photos so I can get a better idea of the quality of the product. So, here are some detail shots of the Forge intercooler for anyone considering purchasing one:
4408

4409

4410

4411

4412
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Stock Intercooler weight:
4430


Forgeintercooler weight:
4431


That’s over 17 lbs heavier! And all that extra mass at the very front of the car. That extra mass pays thermal dividends, too, though.
 

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@Chuckable Sure does. This was the original development thread for the VN;
It fits like a glove and I hope you purchased the cold side boost pipe as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
@Chuckable Sure does. This was the original development thread for the VN;
It fits like a glove and I hope you purchased the cold side boost pipe as well.
I did! Can’t do the project halfway!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
There is a small gap between the rear of the intercooler and front of the condenser. This gap is present on the stock setup as well, but there is a bit of room for improvement.
4446

Excuse the amateur level fabrication, but here is a work-in-progress air guide filler panel for that space which will utilize a stock threaded hole as well as one above it.
4447

Hyundai went to great lengths to make sure the front was well-sealed, and I’m going to try to keep it that way.
 

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Just attempting to save you some time and trouble here.

I can understand the concern but the channel is not important. The bumper fascia fits directly to the FMIC venting and incloses the air channeled thru the FMIC. The radiator cooling operation is unaffected. Look at the rear of the bumper fascia and the way it fits.
This is the same with the removal of the Guard-Air Radiator, Upper for use with the Velossa Tech Ram Air Snorkel. Data logging provided no change in cooling with or without it at all speeds, from idle to high speed and everything in-between.

The lower air guide was designed this way, primarily due to the much smaller size of the FMIC utilized. There will be far to large of gaps without it. Had a larger FMIC been utilized, there would be no need for it. Personally, I would cut up the lower air guide and utilize the both sides cut and shaped to fit the Forge Motorsport FMIC. It will be easier to modify and fit them in the existing holes for the same purpose. Just need a Dremel with cutting wheel and grinder polisher to do the fine fitting. Just a thought.:)(y)

Either the air is moving thru FMIC from forward momentum or its not. The radiator fan has no effect on the FMIC, except to the upper portion of the FMIC when. the fan is in operation. Technically speaking for the FMIC to work efficiently as a heat exchanger momentum volume air must be moving thru the entire FMIC. Their have been some amateurish attempts to prove otherwise thru YouTube videos utilizing commercial floor fans. However they don't provide near the air flow velocity thru a FMIC, at normal let alone high speed.

I understand the principle and what you're attempting to accomplish but it's not something that will make a difference in operation of either air flow to the condenser or actual HVAC operation. There is no segregation between the two. Data logging also demonstrates, no change in hot side intake temps with such use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the feedback, Red. But from what I’ve read and researched, the filler panel is effective. Will it make a drastic difference? No. Will it help? Somewhat. The project is done and turned out well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Just attempting to save you some time and trouble here.

I can understand the concern but the channel is not important. The bumper fascia fits directly to the FMIC venting and incloses the air channeled thru the FMIC. The radiator cooling operation is unaffected. Look at the rear of the bumper fascia and the way it fits.

The lower air guide was designed this way, primarily due to the much smaller size of the FMIC utilized. There will be far to large of gaps without it. Had a larger FMIC been utilized, there would be no need for it. Personally, I would cut up the lower air guide and utilize the both sides cut and shaped to fit the Forge Motorsport FMIC. It will be easier to modify and fit them in the existing holes for the same purpose. Just need a Dremel with cutting wheel and grinder polisher to do the fine fitting. Just a thought.:)(y)

Either the air is moving thru FMIC from forward momentum or its not. The radiator fan has no effect on the FMIC, except to the upper portion of the FMIC when. the fan is in operation. Technically speaking for the FMIC to work efficiently as a heat exchanger momentum volume air must be moving thru the entire FMIC. Their have been some amateurish attempts to prove otherwise thru YouTube videos utilizing commercial floor fans. However they don't provide near the air flow velocity thru a FMIC, at normal let alone high speed.

I understand the principle and what you're attempting to accomplish but it's not something that will make a difference in operation of either air flow to the condenser or actual HVAC operation. There is no segregation between the two. Data logging also demonstrates, no change in hot side intake temps with such use.
This is a pretty reputable source:
Start around the 7:30 mark for a very brief discussion on the topic.
 

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@Chuckable
I appreciate the video and I'm not refutating the need for ducting at high speed operation. However, what has been provided is for a dedicated track car, designed and built for much higher speeds, higher front end air velocities and pressures per capita. Along with being built for a specific venue not daily driving.

At the lower speeds which you and I drive, it's ineffective, inefficient and there is a much greater need to relieve heat soak from the FMIC and engine. With the engine and radiator enclosed in such ducting it will contribute to the engine running hotter overall. Without providing any ability to vent to the air and keep it moving it away from the engine compartment it will cause more performance loss. A vented hood and increased air pressure from higher forward momentum is required to remove the heat. Keep in mind, I specifically said, the use of a vented hood. Without it, none of this is possible and is still minimally effective in daily driving. We don't have a vented hood on the VN. If the engine is radiating heat back onto itself, heat soak rises. The hotside tubing/cold side tubing or FMIC will not work efficiently. You can add thermal heat shielding to tubing but it won't help move the heat soak away from the engine compartment, which is required.

Static air (negative) pressure at idle and speeds lower than 35 mph, combined with engine heat soak and additional heat from other cars blocking the intake air flow, will dramatically increase engine operating temps. Thus defeating the efficiency of the FMIC, air intake and the radiator as well. Hence, the need for a cooling fans on both the radiator and FMIC to pull static (negative) pressure air across both of the areas. (Yes, they have cooling fans and water cooling for FMIC's.) Not talking Meth injection for the engine.

So as air temp rise so does engine temps, oil, coolant, and intake air temps, which creates even more heat soak and an equivalent reduction in hp/tq. Systematically, you need an oil cooler/or larger one directly in the air intake path, along with larger volume radiator & cooling fan/s to reduce temperatures. Engine cooling performance has to be within the parameters of usage though. Running an engine oil to cool, doesn't allow for the burning off of moisture/water and carbon. With oil temps under 200 F it can't happen efficiently is detrimental to the engine longevity. It's just the way it works.
Note, he said they were pretty sure it would work but this is why their testing
They also can't achieve the a similar distance from the inlet, as per the height of the FMIC. This is needed to make the ducting efficient enough to move air cleanly across the entire FMIC. They will need to data log to confirm their theory and work is feasible, as well as accurate. Keep in mind, their results are complete different due to actual usage and venue.

I'll repeat myself buy saying; with "data logging " during daily driving has demonstrated there is no appreciable difference of having either upper or lower air curtain in place at speeds below 85-90 mph. I admit as before, the small inefficient OEM FMIC needs all the help it can get. So the Hyundai engineers rightly decided to add a lower air curtain, which I will add is also included on the Forge Motorsport FMIC.

Additionally, thermodynamics play a major role in horsepower production. The higher the engine operating temperatures, the less efficient the engine operates and produces less overall hp/tq. Air must move in and around the engine, to remove it. To take advantage of such ducting as shown above, the car literally has to be moving at constant speeds of greater than 85-90+ mph on average. These speeds create the necessary air volume and velocity to remove the vast majority of heat soak and aid the FMICs optimal function.

We can't do this during daily driving with the VN. This is one of the reasons why I stated previously, "it will make no difference in the Forge Motorsport FMIC operation or efficiency by adding a small ductal fin on either side." Place the VN in similar situations as the track car shown above and a need for more efficient ducting will become prevalent. For what we are utilizing this FMIC for it will serve its purpose admirably in aiding to reduce intake temps and ultimately aid in producing increased hp/tq. Keep in mind, the most favorable conditions for increased hp/tq production is, cooler denser air. This is what the FMIC is there for to begin with. Compared to the flimsily built and utilized OEM FMIC, there is much greater surface on the Forge Motorsport FMIC to dissipate intake heat. So much more is to be gained from the Forge Motorsport FMIC installation.

One last thing to keep you in this frame of mind; all dyno testing for any FMIC are done under controlled static testing, with large fans, controlled ambient, environmental conditions and none of the daily operation I suggested above. These test vary as well. This is why on the road data logging is essential to make an accurate assessment of all performance gains. Results will vastly differ from owner to owner, along with driving habits, ambient conditions and average driving speeds. There's not one solution that fits all. I suggest for those who are interested, purchase of an accurate data logger is essential in providing accurate readings to legitimize such theories and for keeping tabs on engine performance at any given time or event.

Excuse the length of post but there is far more to consider, than just adding FMIC and ducting. I'm grateful and thank you for the opportunity to discuss this subject in more depth. It's been a favorite of mine for a very long time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Appreciate the long and thorough post, Red. This is a deep subject, and I’ve not even skimmed the surface so have a lot to learn.

Not to start another debate, but decided to wrap the intake, hot and cold side charge pipes in thermal tape.
4502

4503

The hot side pipe will see a lot of heat soak in stop and go driving, and sits right next to the oil pan which will average about 200°F, so it seemed like a good idea.
 
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