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Thanks on the fumoto.

Regarding the alignment, the local alignment wizard in Minneapolis got me -1.7* up front with smaller shank bolts in the top hole, no camber bolts required. After rolling tires on to sidewalls at 40psi I increased pressure up front to 48 and they finally held but resulted in slight chunking of the OEM summer P zeros at the last tnia here. They clearly were working the outside too much as my second lap was my best time and they were getting overheated. Shoulda shaved them. I went back for more camber on my stock suspension. He slotted the upper holes and using smaller shank bolts in the lowers got me -2.5*. He can get more but that's where we stopped until I can test tire temps and pressures at another track day. This is after all my daily. No plates or camber bolts required, just a skilled alignment guy fwiw.

Hearing about the op's rear end twitch (leading to a wreck) gives me pause on a rear sway bar thicker than OEM and has led me to zero toe up front but leave just a touch of toe-in/positive out back to keep it pointed in the right direction until I start increasing rear downforce.
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
Thanks on the fumoto.

Regarding the alignment, the local alignment wizard in Minneapolis got me -1.7* up front with smaller shank bolts in the top hole, no camber bolts required. After rolling tires on to sidewalls at 40psi I increased pressure up front to 48 and they finally held but resulted in slight chunking of the OEM summer P zeros at the last tnia here. They clearly were working the outside too much as my second lap was my best time and they were getting overheated. Shoulda shaved them. I went back for more camber on my stock suspension. He slotted the upper holes and using smaller shank bolts in the lowers got me -2.5*. He can get more but that's where we stopped until I can test tire temps and pressures at another track day. This is after all my daily. No plates or camber bolts required, just a skilled alignment guy fwiw.

Hearing about the op's rear end twitch (leading to a wreck) gives me pause on a rear sway bar thicker than OEM and has led me to zero toe up front but leave just a touch of toe-in/positive out back to keep it pointed in the right direction until I start increasing rear downforce.
I would get the swaybar. It helped me a lot. My rear end twitch is cause I'm an idiot and pushing too hard
 

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I would get the swaybar. It helped me a lot. My rear end twitch is cause I'm an idiot and pushing too hard
Delete if superfluous to discussion, but I'm a total idiot and wouldn't know if I was pushing too hard until I was in the wall so I'd rather let the rear drag behind me until I figure out how to drive better! Despite years of autocross I've just started tracking cars this year at age 44. I loved how a thick bar helped my Civic, but I'm terrified of the rear end passing me some day in turn two at Brainerd International Raceway. I've got a lot to learn so I'm willing to progress slowly and never have to leave an event early. Can't wait for some more in-car instruction at my next HPDE.
 

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Delete if superfluous to discussion, but I'm a total idiot and wouldn't know if I was pushing too hard until I was in the wall so I'd rather let the rear drag behind me until I figure out how to drive better! Despite years of autocross I've just started tracking cars this year at age 44. I loved how a thick bar helped my Civic, but I'm terrified of the rear end passing me some day in turn two at Brainerd International Raceway. I've got a lot to learn so I'm willing to progress slowly and never have to leave an event early. Can't wait for some more in-car instruction at my next HPDE.
Disclaimer to all of this is I am pretty new to performance driving.

I went through a very similar process to you in terms of running high pressures to prevent rollover and then getting chunking, and also with being cautious about a rear bar and rear toe. I will say if you plan to track it just roast the P-Zeros and put something with a stiffer sidewall on it. I just recently mounted some Federal 595- RS-PRO's on mine and instead of running 45/38 hot I am running around 35/33 hot and it feels way better.

As for the fear of leaving the rear toe and swaybar alone, I took the dive on it and just keep my traction control on (in N-Mode though). I had a friend who is a driving coach tell me that until you start to get really good at driving traction control will not cost you any noticeable amount of time and may even make you faster if it helps you stay more confident and less afraid of putting it in a wall. I have zero toe in the back and am running whitelines 22mm rear sway bar. I feel it rotates pretty well around corners in controlled driving still, and I only get extreme oversteer if I make a big input mistake. When that happens traction control seems to step in and save me from anything too crazy and out of control.

I have yet to take the car to BIRs road/competition course though so I have no idea how it will handle on that track vs the AutoX courses I spend most of my time at.
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
Car is back. Here is a before and after of the accident.
All the front exterior parts got replaced.

Before:
6731


6732



After:
6730



This weekend I am going to install the Aerocatch latches on the hood. Plus going to add heat reflecting tape underneath the hood. Just driving around the city and the hood gets super hot to the touch. In 2 weeks the hood is going to be painted white and clear coated on the vents only to keep some carbon fiber visible. I have much more planned in the coming months but its going to take time. My next track day is in 30 days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 · (Edited)
Bit of an update.

Finally got around to installing the Whiteline suspension parts:
Front and rear lowering springs
Front strut tower camber/caster plates
Front ball joints + steering rack spacers that are included in the roll center correction kit

New alignment specs are not as expected. Could be just that this is it or need to try another alignment shop:
Front LeftFront Right
-2.2 camber-2.5 camber
8.2 caster8.1 caster
0 toe0 toe
Was hoping to get -3 camber in the front but this is where it maxed out.

Rear LeftRear Right
-2.2 camber-2.2 camber
0 toe0 toe

Track day is next Friday 10/1 at Buttonwillow. I will test it out and report back.
--------------

I haven't had time to work on the hood. Need to do it this weekend before the track day.
I bought this heat shield to put under it - Thermo-Tec 13590 24" X 48" Adhesive Backed Heat Barrier (Amazon.com)
The hood will get painted after the track day. Next upgrade is most likely going to be the Wilwood BBK v2 kit that I picked out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
If you're interested, this is my current alignment with the Whiteline top hats and 2 camber bolts. Still have stock control arm bushings. I'm running 265 A052s and with just 1 bolt on each strut, I wasn't just rubbing but the fender was cutting into my tire. Had to use 2 bolts to clear the fenders. It was -2.5 with just one bolt per strut.

View attachment 5578
Actually my results are just in line with what Piro has. He said he got -2.5 with 1 camber bolt and whiteline top hats. You can also see he has a -0.5 difference between left and right. I want to try my current spec out and if I need more camber I will look into it.
 

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FWIW I was able to acheive -3 with 4x front camber bolts and factory top hats. Helps a ton with front end bite (and obviously helps with tire wear).
 

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FWIW I was able to acheive -3 with 4x front camber bolts and factory top hats. Helps a ton with front end bite (and obviously helps with tire wear).
Curious... have you gotten an alignment since getting it aligned at -3? I live near philadelphia and drive into philadelphia every day. The highways have some pretty nasty bumps and the city streets are littered with nasty bumps and pot holes. I can't help but think a car w/both top and bottom bolts replaced with camber bolts would get a screwed up alignment in short order. But I don't really know. Where you live, do you deal with nasty pot holed roads? How munged up was your alignment when you went to get it realigned?
 

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Curious... have you gotten an alignment since getting it aligned at -3? I live near philadelphia and drive into philadelphia every day. The highways have some pretty nasty bumps and the city streets are littered with nasty bumps and pot holes. I can't help but think a car w/both top and bottom bolts replaced with camber bolts would get a screwed up alignment in short order. But I don't really know. Where you live, do you deal with nasty pot holed roads? How munged up was your alignment when you went to get it realigned?
No alignment issues. I re-aligned after winter too just to be certain (i did a cross country road trip in Canada). Camber didn't get borked.
Actually, toe came out of alignment. Camber was unchanged.
I've sinced also purchased tophats to get more camber for time attack. -3 is not enough on this car. It's enough to really get the car to rotate on entry, but it still suffers from mid corner (on power) push - even with taking care with the throttle in some scenarios. A local guy runs -4 on his lowered VN and that thing is DIALED. (but obv would be crap for street).
 

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No alignment issues. I re-aligned after winter too just to be certain (i did a cross country road trip in Canada). Camber didn't get borked.
Actually, toe came out of alignment. Camber was unchanged.
I've sinced also purchased tophats to get more camber for time attack. -3 is not enough on this car. It's enough to really get the car to rotate on entry, but it still suffers from mid corner (on power) push - even with taking care with the throttle in some scenarios. A local guy runs -4 on his lowered VN and that thing is DIALED. (but obv would be crap for street).
That is surprising and also pretty inspiring. Do you have crappy roads like I do in the philly area (philly area roads are not third world levels of crappy, but are pretty bad!)? Once I'm out of the dense urban areas and major highways, the roads are pretty good.
Did you install the whiteline tops already? I've killed my 2nd set of struts running those tops so I'm going back to stock tops to see if it's the tops or the roads. Pretty sure it's the tops because I was running em for less than 2 weeks before they were killed.
 
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