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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
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Sxth Element released this today, 08/20/21, at $799 for the unit. SXTH Element Engineering

Will be interested to hear what people have to say about this once it gets in enough people’s hands. I’ve used Cobb and Hondata before on other projects, but am not familiar with the EK1 Pro.

Tuning with this ain’t cheap, though! You also need a spare ECU for the VN ($500) and a Stage 1 tune is $250. It’s unclear if you also need the cable that Sxth sells separately.

So that’s a minimum of:

$799 + $500 + $250 = $1499
6549

I like Sxth, their products, and customer service. But $1500 seems like a high buy-in for a Stage 1 tune on a $30k car. You can get a Cobb Accessport with tune for many vehicles for around $500-$600. I know it’s not an apples to apples comparison, but it’s not far off, either.

In any case, happy to see more tuning options for the VN and looking forward to what comes.
 

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An interesting thing to add is, if you do own a SXTH spare ECU for with their tune, you also need to check with them if its compatible. Chances are it will not be compatible and will need to be sent to SXTH to be OBD unlocked. At least that's what they told me when I reached out. I bought the spare ECU with a tune from them fairly recently, like a couple of months ago, and I was told I would need to have it unlocked by them to use the EK1Pro.
 

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I just emailed SXTH. I bought their stage 1 tune for the N DCT. They said It would be compatiblt with the EK1 Pro. I’m only considering the EK1 for the ease of readout for gauges and tune swapping. Still so expensive with the spare ECU+EK1 being 2k. That’s too much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
A tune for $250 seems fair. I’m sure Nathan has put a lot of work into those tunes.

I have no idea what their margin is on the EK1 (I’m guessing 30-40%?). If Sxth could offer a discount when you buy the EK1 and the tune (because almost everyone will) that would be great. Maybe they could do that for Black Friday or holidays or something. An EK1 with basic tune for $899 would be cool.

I’m just hoping that Sxth will be able to unlock the stock ECU. If they can then no need for a second ECU. At that point, if Sxth bundled the tune and EK1 for under $1k it would be comparable to other platforms like Ford, Honda, Subaru, and others. Right now $1550 is pretty expensive and I’m sure keeping people from making the purchase.
 

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A tune for $250 seems fair. I’m sure Nathan has put a lot of work into those tunes.

I have no idea what their margin is on the EK1 (I’m guessing 30-40%?). If Sxth could offer a discount when you buy the EK1 and the tune (because almost everyone will) that would be great. Maybe they could do that for Black Friday or holidays or something. An EK1 with basic tune for $899 would be cool.

I’m just hoping that Sxth will be able to unlock the stock ECU. If they can then no need for a second ECU. At that point, if Sxth bundled the tune and EK1 for under $1k it would be comparable to other platforms like Ford, Honda, Subaru, and others. Right now $1550 is pretty expensive and I’m sure keeping people from making the purchase.
845 motorsports has a cable that can flash the tune directly to the ecu once it’s unlocked. I’m not sure the process I just read off the page. You could always hit up Kyle Bennington in Florida on Facebook-he works for 845. The cable is like 400ish and the tune is like 550Ish or something like that. Im thinking of going this route, as you could just flash your own stuff and not pay an extra 1k
 

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The expense on this is insane, I don't even know if you can use it for just the gauge / obd access without the spare "unlocked" ecu. Don't get me wrong, its a very cool product and I am interested in seeing where it goes. However I'll likely just not be tuning this car, its absolutely crazy to get a real tune, and piggybacks don't do it for me. Almost a 5% cost of the vehicle just to get a tune, shame Cobb doesn't want to do an Accessport for ~$650
 

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They removed the spare ecu tunes in favor of this. Obviously they care about money more than being competitive.

I paid $1k for a spare ecu with the high torque tune which wasn't that bad but if you look at other tuner platforms you'll see that $1k is quite a bit in comparison.

Also, my high torque tune doesn't deliver power the way I want. I don't want to have to send back my ECU, change my plugs and wait until they reflash and send it back. So basically, if I want to switch my tunes, I still have to send back my spare ecu, get it unlocked, get it sent back, then pay $700 for the unit plus whatever the other tune is gonna cost me.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt and wait and see what people who've actually purchased this have to say. Will also see how long it stays around. Hopefully it ends up revolutionizing tunablity for hyundais but only time will tell.
 

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I will give them the benefit of the doubt and wait and see what people who've actually purchased this have to say. Will also see how long it stays around. Hopefully it ends up revolutionizing tunablity for hyundais but only time will tell.
Once people become aware that you can buy this directly from Korea (potentially for less money), it might make sense to use SXTH as a source for the tune and unlocked ecu
 

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To answer a few questions, the cost of the device itself ($799) is because of the huge increase in cost on electronics. When we were designing these we were determined to use a capacitive touch panel and a fairly high specification ARM processor. The cost on these doubled, and in the case of the PCB itself, tripled, during the development process. The Cobb unit costs about 1/3 of what our EK1 Pro costs to produce.

A spare ECU is only required for flashing. We will have the ability to unlock your original ECU shortly I believe, we are just working out a few bugs.

The comparison to other markets is difficult, we would need to sell 10x the devices that we sell today to even begin to bring our device cost down through mass manufacturing.

Lastly, you cannot buy this device in Korea if you live in the US. If you check out out site we actually jointly own the company in Korea that we designed the EK1 Pro with. This isn't an off the shelf product that we buy from Korea, we designed it.
 

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The comparison to other markets is difficult, we would need to sell 10x the devices that we sell today to even begin to bring our device cost down through mass manufacturing.
Basically because the market is so extremely small for the time being isn't it?

Just sort of sucks. Its cool but its so expensive, i'll wait to see further reviews to decide though.
 

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Basically because the market is so extremely small for the time being isn't it?

Just sort of sucks. Its cool but its so expensive, i'll wait to see further reviews to decide though.
Yes, unfortunately the market is tiny. We tried our best to keep the cost down! With the upgrades over an Accessport, it's within the same realm.
 

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Yes, unfortunately the market is tiny. We tried our best to keep the cost down! With the upgrades over an Accessport, it's within the same realm.
I love it for the gauge functionality, I just cant justify the cost if it also needs an unlocked ECU just for that.

Will these be compatible with the Elantra N and Kona N as well?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
To answer a few questions, the cost of the device itself ($799) is because of the huge increase in cost on electronics. When we were designing these we were determined to use a capacitive touch panel and a fairly high specification ARM processor. The cost on these doubled, and in the case of the PCB itself, tripled, during the development process. The Cobb unit costs about 1/3 of what our EK1 Pro costs to produce.

A spare ECU is only required for flashing. We will have the ability to unlock your original ECU shortly I believe, we are just working out a few bugs.

The comparison to other markets is difficult, we would need to sell 10x the devices that we sell today to even begin to bring our device cost down through mass manufacturing.

Lastly, you cannot buy this device in Korea if you live in the US. If you check out out site we actually jointly own the company in Korea that we designed the EK1 Pro with. This isn't an off the shelf product that we buy from Korea, we designed it.
Thank you for taking the time to clarify some things. It’s good to hear from Sxth, and also good to hear that the extra ECU may not be needed in the future.
 

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The raspberry pi has a processor more than capable to handle whatever you run on the ek1. It is still $75 . The processor alone is very inexpensive. Since you don't need the same peripherals and pcbs are still cheap to manufacture and so are displays, I highly doubt $799 is anywhere near what you actually pay to manufacture these devices. Limited stock shows they aren't mass produced. I am very skeptical to your claims. Why not sell us the software so we can flash it ourselves with our own hardware?

If you're being honest with the pricing I can manufacture these units for less than $300 if you want a new manufacturer.
 

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The R. Pi is mass produced and they already have stock of processors. The price won't be effected until they run out of stock. The displays are actually not cheap to manufacture in the quantities that we sell.

As for: "Limited stock shows they aren't mass produced." I wish we could mass produce these as I said, but we can't right now.

Our price is $799, our COGS is roughly 50%. I would never sell proprietary software for you to load on your own device, our CPEGD and SIM2K software is very important for us to protect in addition to our GDS specific PIDs.

Our manufacturer provides several assurances that increase the cost for us. This is important in keeping our software safe. Also included in the device cost is serialization for KCC and FCC.
 

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I've been in software engineering and manufacturing devices for almost two decades.

That said I believe in specifications, protocols and sharing knowledge, rather than keeping it for monetary gain. You can sell your goods online thanks to these specifications, protocols and individuals who shared their knowledge without the same desire.

Unfortunately, I am a human who is capable of multiple beliefs, and one that contradicts my trade is that I am a believer in the free market. So I am glad to know the people I banked on for a crucial part of my vehicle will be around to support me and my and my annoying ass. You must also get a good deal on the spare ECUs considering it's only about $500 more for the full EK1Pro kit, with cable, spare ecu & tune than what I paid for just a spare ECU + tune. Can I get a discount? :ROFLMAO:
 
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