You are saying key words like "high powered" and I would assume that entails more boost large turbo etc. I would expect for him to be having carbon build up. But remember, every system has its limitations and OEMs do not build engines to perform more than intended design. Can they? Sure! but again, every system has its limitation.


I am almost certain the N valve cover has built in air/oil separators on both ports


Edit: all my crank case system ports and intake tube are dry. I will have to check the turbo but from what I already see i'd bet its dry.

 

Yes more boost, 400whp believe he did turbo swap but before was still experiencing carbon buildup . But we can stick to an example that is completely stock. My PCV nipple and tube were visibly oily when I installed my can. Carbon buildup will be an issue , it's just a matter of when . It could be that the oil seperators are efficient but they are not going to remove 100% of oil in airstream. If the issue was this simple to solve it would have been done years ago.

 

It doesn't appear to have the same design. This is the gamma valve cover. You will notice the difference in the valve cover design by location of breather and PCV port being on the same side. Additionally, there is no raised rectangular addition to the raised camshaft clearance

 

Good catch spotting the differences. Very interesting.

 

Port injecting + Direct injection is always going to be the best remedy.

It will be the only remedy for now! It will also raise the price of the manufacturing as well.

The Dana model doesn't seem to be particularly expensive though.

They don't make or offer any for Hyundais, never have. Mobis does but it is not equipped with oil/fuel separator.

 

It will be the only remedy for now! It will also raise the price of the manufacturing as well.
They don't make or offer any for Hyundais, never have. Mobis does but it is not equipped with oil/fuel separator.

Thank you for the info! Do you know what model years Mobis produced valve covers for Hyundai?

 

I'd have to look to be sure. Most of the thermoplastic part are produced by Mobis as well as suspensions etc. Even MAHLE is contracted to make parts for Hyundai.

You can look here to get some idea;
MOBIS in North America :: Hyundai MTCA
https://en.mobis.co.kr/main/index.do

2.0 Theta II Valve Cover;

 

This is great info !

 

Looks like it works to me Bud! Glad you persuaded me to get one. lol... Great oil choice BTW. Runs the cleanest in my opinion.

BR,

-Mike

 

No problem man. I would be interested in how much oil you collect as well. I know for me personally it was a no brainer. My driving style and location seemed to produce a TON of carbon buildup on my 16' VW GTI so I figured I would be more safe than sorry on my VN which holds a special place in my heart I would be interested to learn what style of catch cans other members were using when they caught "zero" oil after 1K or more miles. I chose the Mishimoto can because of the micron filter. Baffles are okay in large quantity and semi complex design but a simple baffle plate with no filter isn't gonna catch anything. I look forward to more people weighing in on types of cans they have purchased and their driving styles. Driving the car like you stole it constantly seems to divert most oily vapor through the breather tube. I have already seen carbon buildup on this platform, now the question is just where it is coming from and the best way to prevent it The Amsoil also looks great and feels great! Can't wait to see how it looks after another 3K miles!

 

I am very glad I did this too. My next oil change is in about 2000 miles. I will post on here how much oil it caught. I like the Mishimoto can too; it's small and looks like it came from the factory. The Amsoil 0-W30 still looked a dark golden color after 3000 miles in my N. It was just starting to turn color. Most other oils I have used were already brown by 1500 miles. I am changing my oil at 5000 mile intervals. The Amsoil signature series is good for 15,000 to 25,000 miles but I have always been a cautious person with maintenance. You will have that "new oil feeling" for about 2000 to 2500 miles with the Amsoil. I didn't even get that with Royal Purple in my last car. Maybe 1000 to 1500 miles at best...

Br,

-Mike

 

Thanks for keeping us posted ! I am very happy with my choice of oil as Amsoil seems to be the best you can get currently. I love the new oil feel haha this is good news . She's so buttery smooth right now. I'm going to run this current oil for another 3K get it tested then go from there . If everything checks out I will change my intervals to 5-6k. I too am very cautious with maintenance.

 

Oh darn!!! I found a patent!!! DOH!
"A flow control system is provided having an engine, a turbocharger, and positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) line, and a flow regulating device. The engine has an air-oil separator and an intake manifold. The air-oil separator separates oil droplets and oil mist from a blowby gas. The turbocharger has an air inlet and an air outlet, where the air outlet is connected to the intake manifold of the engine. The positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) vent line has a first end connected to the air-oil separator and a second end connected to the air inlet of the turbocharger. The PCV vent line delivers the blowby gas from the air-oil separator to the air inlet of the turbocharger. The flow regulating device is located in the PCV vent line. The flow regulating device selectively limits the flow of blowby gas from the air-oil separator to the air inlet of the turbocharger."
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8695339B2/en

 

Lots of good info in here!

Are you guys both just running single cans?

 

Single can on PCV side. My thinking is that because I don't race my car or drive it like it's stolen 100% of the time most of my oily vapors are diverted through the PCV side because the car is usually under vacuum. But you might need a dual can if you plan to drive her HARD. I still plan to do chemical valve cleaning every 10-15k though.

 

I run a single can on the PCV side.

-M

 

All very interesting information . But as a former patent examiner , ford/toyota engineer and a current quality engineer let me politely add my two cents. I would be careful reading into patents in this manner. That patent is almost 20 years old dating back to the early 2000s. We have no way to know if this is the technology that Hyundai incorporated without knowing what is in those black boxes. Companies patent technology all the time . Sometimes they patent items just so other companies cannot and never incorporate them. It's a complicated battle of intellectual property. While I would agree with you and lean more towards our vehicles having air oil seperators I wouldn't necessarily declare this is the technology they have utilized. Those cones could simply be drain points for oil droplets. Those black boxes could simply have alot of baffles and the oil drains out through those ports. On one side of the cover the cone is horizontal as opposed to vertical. Also if you examine the patent and look at the elements cited those cones are very large in relation to the valve cover. Large enough to use centrifugal force to seperate the oil. Without seeing inside the boxes we cannot be certain this is the same design in our valve covers. I would also be interested to know members scope of what an oil/air seperator really is. In it's broadest sense consecutive baffles could be considered an oil/air seperator .. as they would seperate air from oil. What I'm sensing from their thread is the interpretation that an air/oil seperator in our vehicle would be a highly engineered component to remove almost all of oil from our air stream. And while I do agree that our platform probably does have a method to help eliminate blow by from our pcv lines I question it's effectiveness . I question this effectiveness from first hand testing on my own vehicle . 15-20ml of oil attacking your valves every 1000 miles is alot of oil vapor . After 10k miles that's 150-200ml of oil. I think the ultimate point of this convo was to explore carbon buildup and methods of prevention on our platform . I would find it very hard to believe that Hyundai would put zero means to help seperate air from oil in a turbo charged application . I am interested to see exactly what design they chose to ahieve this result however. But again I question it's effectiveness.

 

Response comes from the n-cars forum but thought the info was still relevant. Link to other forum at bottom:

Catch cans definitely are not a cure all solution. I simply just don't see the harm in addition onto the OEM system to increase effectiveness . From my own testing on my own platform I deem it not effective enough . On the old VW GTI forums similar convos were had. Oil dilution , the technological advancements of VW, etc etc. And the end result was me personally ending up with tons of carbon buildup because I did nothing . As well as on this platform people said I would have to add boost , downpipes , tunes , intakes etc to get this amount of blow by. Now maybe I have more blow-by than most (I have to wait for oil results to come back) but I shouldn't with a new engine that I have taken care of . I guess the cans are more so specific to driving style and location . There are alot of variables here. My statements aren't really directed towards anyone. But catch cans get a bad rep. People will spend hundreds on blow off valves , intakes , turbo inlets , resonator deletes , cat back exhausts , air filters etc etc and effectively gain ZERO performance AND void there warrenty . But when it comes to a catch can that could assist in preventing the single most expensive component on your vehicle (engine) people are like holy **** 200 dollars for a catch can your doing drugs and wasting money . *Shrug. I would advise every one to do testing on there own vehicle . I'm happy with the performance of my can this far. But again this has alot to do with a multitude of variables like driving style and location . I just don't trust OEM companies to spend top dollar to eliminate this issue that's all. If they were willing to we would all have port + direct Injection vehicles like the GTIs in Europe.

https://n-cars.net/forums/threads/catch-can.2622/page-7

 

General question: are there any recommendations/best practices on running the catch can hoses? I'm mainly thinking of proximity to other hoses or cords, due to operating temp or something similar.

I've attached some pictures of my proposed hose routing. My main considerations were 1) making them as short as possible while avoiding any sharp bends, and 2) routing them in a way that doesn't preclude using the engine cover.

One other thing, regarding the diagnostic port: I found that popping out the cord clip attached the mounting arm, rotating the arm 180 degrees, and bolting the arm to the lower stud put it in a better position (i.e. not resting right on metal). I attached a picture of that as well.

 

The general rule of thumb is going to be to run the shortest line possible (to keep can warm/less chance oil condensing in line because it has less length to travel) and to keep the elevation of the can at or below the source of oily vapor (pcv nipple on valve cover). The location you chose is the same as mine and I've found no problems with the can staying warm because of the pressurized coolant bottle. I've also found no issue with the elevation as I caught a good amount of oil after my first oil change (I caught 15ml of pure oil with the Mishimoto can). I wouldn't worry too much about heat of hoses effecting other stuff, just make sure you have good sealed connections. That engine bay is hot as **** already and other components have been designed as such. I don't have any insight on trying to make it fit under the engine cover because I don't run them lol! (just another thing to trap heat and make plastics brittle etc. just my own personal choice. I look at them as beauty covers). And lastly, I also relocated the diagnostic port down to the second threaded stud that comes on our cars.

 

Low Temps

My question is.
How will this set up perform in Canadian winters, whe n the temperature can dip into the -30s?:

 

My question is.
How will this set up perform in Canadian winters, whe n the temperature can dip into the -30s?:

I won't work for you. You can't use it unless it heated. Last thing you want to do is let it or anything in it freeze.

 

I'm not sure how effectiveness will be affected by ultra cold temps but as long as the can is the only low point that can collect moisture (and potentially freeze) and you don't let the can fill you shouldn't have any problems

 

Ditto.

 

Digging through the service manual in my free time and found this in the emission control system section. Contrary to my initial understanding of the pcv system it appears that the pcv valve was designed to be open (to extract oily vapors) at all times the engine is operational. I previously was under the impression that the pcv valve closed under high load/high boost and oily vapors were forced through the breather tube. This justifies the significance of installing a can on the pcv side if one is only going to run one can.

 

That appears to be a non turbo motor in the diagram though (shared section of the service manual maybe?). The PCV on those would be open under WOT because the crankcase has pressure from blowby but the intake is at close to zero inches of vacuum. On a turbo motor the PCV should be shut from the positive intake pressure. Actually... I'm going to go pull the PCV hose and blow into it right now and test that theory..

 

Here are a few pics of what was caught in my catch can. This is only 1500 miles, that's when I installed the can. I changed the oil at 4500 mile intervals. The car has 7800 miles. This is my second oil change. I changed the break in oil at 3200 miles myself.

Br,

-Mike

 

One more thing... Some people pour the oil the catch can traps back into the crank case. Please do NOT do this! No reason for it, and the oil is paper thin and it's sheared. It does not look like it even has lubricating properties anymore. Just my opinion.

Best regards,

-Mike

 

I agree with your logic here. Also nice info , looks like you caught a good amount of blow-by vapor.

 

Some interesting results after running my can for another 1K miles. I have now had my VN for 4K miles and the can has been run for 2k miles. During this 1000 mile interval I went on a road trip down to VA where I did 214 miles of highway driving. That is 21.4% more highway driving than my normal daily driving routine and different from how the car was driven from 2K miles to 3K miles when I emptied my first can . Also I am now running Amsoil 0w-30 and not the break in oil. I captured roughly 10ml of oil this go around so that’s 33% less oil than the last 1000 mile interval. Also I poured some tap water into the container where I captured the oil to see if there was a significant amount of gas vapor and moisture captured. To my surprise it was mostly oil that was captured (good job Mishimoto). To me it looks like most of the 10ml sample was all pure oil. In the attachment you can see the layer of oil sitting on top of the water. There also appears to be a middle layer , probably of oil mixed with combustion gases (I let the mixture sit over night for proper separation). If there was a significant amount of gas vapor it should sit on top of the oil as the density of motor oil and water is both higher than gasoline. Placement of the can appears to also have helped tremendously . The can is located near the coolant bottle which should be roughly 200 degrees or a bit higher . We have already determined that the can gets flesh scorching hot. The boiling point of water is 212 degrees and gasoline boils anywhere between 100-400 degrees . So it is relatively safe to assume that both these elements remained in vapor state while being filtered by the can. On the other hand synthetic motor oil has a boiling point of more than 500 degrees (piston rings can get this hot). Even though the flashpoint if Amsoil 0w-30 is 428 degrees it appears that it has been able to cool and condensed to a sufficient degree to be captured. Looking forward to running the can another 1000 miles with my regular driving routine to see the results (the Amsoil could be a big factor here vs the break-in oil). After I will lengthen the intervals between measurements . And hopefully sometime soon I can peak at the valves and turbo.

 

That micron filter probably will never get dirty with using Amsoil. It has one of the best detergent packages available for a synthetic motor oil. Also, Amsoil states it doesn't create as much blow by as other oils do. Seems like your data supports this. This is a GREAT catch can too. Thank you for all the work you have done regarding it.

Br,

-Mike

 

No problem man ! I’m gonna keep the content coming ! And I hope you are right, not having to clean the filter would be ideal.

 

I believe I'm going to utilize a Flash Lube CC.

 

Looks so futuristic! Can you explain the differences? Thanks Bud.

Br,

-Mike

 

FlashLube and Provent CC's have a replaceable filtration filter, in the can. There is also a pressure relief and drain built into the can. Take a look below, I think is pretty self explanatory.

Provent is another excellent choice as well;

Either one is an excellent choice IMHO.

 

FlashLube and Provent CC's have a replaceable filtration filter, in the can. There is also a pressure relief and drain built into the can. Take a look below, I think is pretty self explanatory.

Provent is another excellent choice as well;
https://youtu.be/7kvfjvq6lCQ
Either one is an excellent choice IMHO.

Very cool. What are the prices of these? And are you going to actually drain the oil back into the sump?

 

Wow, pretty cool!

Br,

-Mike

 

Hi guys, new to the forum thing but since I've purchased my Veloster N PP and love it figured would be nice to learn as much about it as possible about it. Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong section.
Understand the PCV system and installing a catch can there but why cant we just vent the breather that usually runs to the intake before the turbo to atmosphere? I see Sxth Element Engineering has that option for the Veloster 1.6T. Does it hurt performance at all? Understand maybe an emission thing but all I care about is the performance and longevity of keeping my engine clean.

 

https://www.velostern.com/forum/10-engine-technical-discussion/745-cfm-breather-w-checkball.html

Ghost took the lead on that one..check it out here.

 

Understand the PCV system and installing a catch can there but why cant we just vent the breather that usually runs to the intake before the turbo to atmosphere? I see Sxth Element Engineering has that option for the Veloster 1.6T. Does it hurt performance at all? Understand maybe an emission thing but all I care about is the performance and longevity of keeping my engine clean.

You're simply not going to pass emission testing, if your state requires it for registration. You can't vent to the air anymore and is not in compliance with EPA Regulations. A catch can is and traps the oil/fuel/water vapor.

Mass, requires both annual safety and emission inspections to get the vehicle registered.